Best Prep for PhD/ThD programs

[Jufarius87]

As far as doctoral programs in Religion/Theology are concerned, what do you guys think is the best prep for getting in AND surviving the program once you've been accepted?

In short, I heard someone else on these boards say that two masters degress has become common place before applying to Ph.Ds.... I guess my question is what kind is preferable? For example Would an M.Div/S.T.M combination or an M.A/M.A or an M.Div/M.A combination be more appealing to adcomms? What fields should one focus on? Is it good to have one of the MAs be in philosophy or literature or some other non-theological field? How essential is it for your undergraduate degree to be in religion (mine personally was in philosophy and mathematics)?

Personally, I have to go the M.Div route, but I thought it would be interesting to Discuss Strategy For getting in and completing the program

[Philmajor]

Interesting questions and I can only speak to what I've done. My undergrad degree was in philosophy from a state school (not well known for philosophy). I received my AM from UChicago Divinity and I am now working towards my PhD. I was behind during my first year at the Divinity School since I had no religion background except for the little I got from readings I had done on my own.

[studyordie]

I have two prospective MA programs I will be applying to if I come up dry on Ph.D. app's in theologicalish things I've already posted. Both of the MAs are philosophy programs with app. due dates in April when I should have a good sense of my luck with the Ph.D. apps. I'm currently finishing up an M.Div. I looked at a few more "prestigious" Theology master's programs than the one I'm completing and was honestly horrified by the prospect of doing a repeat of my current program. I also think a MA in a different subject would look better to Ph.D. programs later on. So I vote for the dual master's in different subjects.

[achowa00]

I did an undergraduate degree at a small liberal arts college in English and Religion and then after a year in Americorps, went on to do an MDiv. The year away brought new perspective and energy to my divinity school experience and that combined with the field education I did while there had a huge impact on how I do theology and who I feel accountable to when I preach, write, speak, etc. I'm in my second year working in campus ministry at an Ivy and am applying to Ph.D., Th.D., and two one-year, post-MDiv. programs as backups should Ph.D.'s not work out this time around. The one year programs I chose are both at great schools with amazing faculty and happen to be right in my backyard, so I wouldn't be dragging my family somewhere else for only a year. I wasn't sure either about the usefulness of another Master's but in talking with faculty at those institutions, they offered helpful advice about spending a year to focus and get my remaining language requirement out the way to give me a leg up on re-appyling next year. Money aside, that prospect is more and more appealing, but I think it might come down to funding.

I think a lot of people on the religion board around here are more on the philosophy of religion side of things, but the idea of an entire master's program in philosophy makes me want to run for the hills. I see the value in it certainly, but I think I'll take the bare bones of continental to get me through...

[demondeac]

There was a post from last year (I remember vaguely) of someone who had two MA's in the exact same discipline (different institutions) and he/she had said that programs asked him/her what exactly he/she hoped to accomplish other than spiralling debt. I tend to agree, and an MDiv as one of the degrees opens quite a few possibilities that an MA cannot (religiously-affiliated, small, liberal arts colleges!). Achowa00, I shared your reticence to do an entire MA in philosophy (since my interests are primarily in theology), but it is quite helpful for understanding most contemporary theological streams which presume quite a bit of philosophy. I'm reading through Tillich's Systematic, vol. 1 and I just don't know how intelligible the second half would be without having read Heidegger and other existentialists/phenomenologists. It's certainly understandable without having read them, but understanding it as situated within the intellectual stream (rather than just theological) seems important.

Studyordie, I'm definitely going to start using "theologicalish" in regular conversation to describe myself.

[Jufarius87]

How difficult is it to get into M.Div programs? And.... what are the most important factors? I've heard there is a huge discrepency between doctoral and masters degree admissions, but I am still kind of nervous given that my first admit/reject letter should be coming soon.

[studyordie]

I think I read a post here that talked about Chicago's need to have an M.Div. program per its charter, so you end up with funded M.Div. students that probably would not be funded in more academically focused degree programs, if you go for that distinction.

[tshaunprice]

I did an MDiv, and stuck around an extra year to do a ThM. I found that extra year to be fruitful academically in preparing for PhD work, and it also helped to build a better resume.

[demondeac]

So I'm starting to learn what might really be the "best prep" for PhD programs, i.e. what I DIDN'T do and wished I had known 10 years ago:

-come from a ridiculously prestigious masters program (can even forgive a small liberal arts undergrad)

-At said ridiculously prestigious masters program, buddy up from day one with the professors who either (1) were the pupils of whom you want to do a PhD, or (2) good old drinking buddies with the professors with whom you want to do a PhD. Needless to say at ridiculously prestigious masters program, these faculties will also publish at breakneck speeds and be universally known by all adcomms. :wink:

-Have published extensive journal articles in top publications, which luckily are published at the very same ridiculously prestigious masters program and edited by the professors with whom you buddied up.

-Have scores of professors who mentor and assist you in every aspect of your application, making you re-draft your SoP and writing samply myriad times (I can't even get an email response from my thesis advisor to talk about my thesis!)

-Make sure that said professors make calls to old drinking buddies on your behalf.

I of course mean this with a little humor, but for the most part, I think this is solid advice that I would give to anyone who is finishing up their undergrad and considering teaching as a vocation.

Any thoughts on what you all would have done differently?

[jcesarps]

I think that you actually was quite soft in your way of describing this long and winding road. Anyhow, it is really along those lines you've written.

Best wishes!

[Plutarch]

demondeac,

I hate to say it, but I am a PhD student at an Ivy League school and everything you said in jest is fairly accurate. Certainly there are other ways of getting in, but the most common route is the one you outlined above.

[demondeac]

I hate to say it, but I am a PhD student at an Ivy League school and everything you said in jest is fairly accurate. Certainly there are other ways of getting in, but the most common route is the one you outlined above.

It was probably only about 8% in jest . If I ever did make it into academia I would tell anyone to do exactly that; it was kind of like "here's my observation" I'll make it funny so I don't keep reflecting on what I could have done that would make this process a whole lot smoother. So Plutarch, are you willing to share which Ivy you're at? It's okay if not, I certainly don't want to spark any internecine feuds amongst the ivys...