Adventures in Applications...

[GeneralistAdventurist]

Hi Folks!

I'm about to embark on my application process, and since everyone has an opinion, I'd like to get some from folks who have gone through the process to chime in...

Background info first:

I'm finishing up an Art History BA at a state school, with a 3.976, small academic writing based scholarship, started an art history club on campus, have some great faculty behind me, and was chosen to speak at a symposium on a paper I wrote.

Outside of school, I've done two internships at well-known museums in NYC, got a scholarship to a museum education roundtable, wrote a reflection for their website, work as an educator for an art museum and object/historical museum, and just got accepted into a year-long guide training at a major museum.

Ultimately, I want to work in programming/education. I'm pretty solidly a generalist; I have a lot of interest in modern more than I do not think I want to curate, so I am not looking at PhD programs. I'm signed up to take the GRE September 17 (GULP) and have been going through a practice book for the past month and will continue to do so.

The real question:

I'm extremely interested in a new program-new new, like beginning the year I would enter grad school. I've had a few advisors feel not completely sold on the idea of a new program, their reasoning being that I should aim higher, apply for Art History MA's, etc. I haven't gotten this excited about ANY program...but I also don't want to put all of my eggs in one basket, so I am taking the advice of my advisor, and casting a wide web. Here are the schools I'm interested in:

BU (MA General Track)

U-Del

Williams

Hunter

SVA-MA Critical Theory and The Arts (This is the new program)

What is the opinion on a new program vs an established program? Any other educators out there?

Thanks in advance!!

[losemygrip]

Do you mean museum education? I think there used to be a whole masters degree program in that at GWU, or maybe Georgetown. You may also want to consider the arts administration program at Seton Hall.

There is no point in doing a theory program if you want a job in education.

The advantage to getting in a new program is there is generally less competition, and if they have resources, you'll get them. The down side is that if they're new, there may not BE any resources.

[CoffeeMug]

You want to work in a museum, but not do the research part for exhibitions? Then AH programs aren't what you are looking for. I originally was looking at AH programs too, but I found what I was looking for (and perhaps you as well) in Museum Administration.

Here are some schools to look at:

NYU: Visual Arts Administration & Museum Studies

GWU: Museum Studies

Georgetown: Museum Studies

Seton Hall: Museum Professions

Carnegie Melon University: Museum Studies

CUNY: Art History and Museum Administration

Columbia: Arts Administration

Brown: Public Humanities

Hopkins: Museum Studies (Online, Technology focus)

Bank Street: Museum Education

I go to one of the above schools and am fairly knowledgeable (or at least opinionated!) about the rest. Feel free to ask questions.

[fullofpink]

If you want to work in an art museum, getting a MA in Art History should be fine (especially if you think you may want to change careers after some time). While pursuing a masters, just make sure you are working in the education sector of a museum. It would be best to see if any university you apply to has a direct affiliation with a nearby museum (meaning, you don't have to apply to get an internship or compete with 1000x other people). I think your first 4 choices are really good candidates because of their proximity (and relationship) with area museums. If this was me, I would also look at schools with relationships to smaller museums - usually they do not have the staff to create and manage their programs and will use their interns or part-timers to initiate projects and really get in the middle of business.

In the museum world, it's who you know, not really what you know. Museum studies is seen as professional degrees (like a Master of Library Science), so almost everyone is on the same bar no matter how fancy the school name is that you graduated from. A review panel will be more impressed with an employment/intern history where you've implemented and carried out your own projects and learning strategies than if you got a MA in Art History or in Museum studies. Plus, the recommendations from people in the field will be enough.

It's really strange to stress that every museum is very different and it would be good to know what kind of museum (or age range) you'd like to work with so you can cater your thesis and learning interests in achieving that goal. For example, even if you want to strictly work in college education and think a university art museum would suit you best, sometimes you still have to deal with k-12 education. One uni art museum I worked focused 35% of their programming to teaching elementary school kids. Who would have thought?!

I would be wary of art administration programs. They really are geared for those interested in the more administrative/business side than education.

Edited July 31, 2011 by fullofpink

[GeneralistAdventurist]

Coffee Mug-Thanks for your input! I've been going back and forth, because I could see myself wanting to curate one day--education at many of the museums I've worked for still involves A LOT of research, and generally works pretty closely with the curators. I'm hesitant about a museum studies program, mainly because I'm more interested in education than the business side of things. I know the well-rounded experience is important, but since I'm so focused on education/programming...What area of museums do you want to work in Coffee Mug?

fullofpink-Thanks too! It's tough, because I'm kind of set on staying in NYC, don't want to apply to PhD programs, and am trying to get excited about a MA in Art History (which, I think I will) but the Theory program is what really interests me. Just in your opinion, if a MA in Art History and a MA in Museum Studies are worth essentially the same with experience, then would the Theory program be in that line as well? All of my museum experience has been in education...and it is indeed a small world of who you know...

Thanks to you too losemygrip...I am indeed talking about Museum Education, and I'm also weighing the cost of a program to how much I'm going to make when I get out...no point in getting in loads of debt when I'll be making peanuts when I leave...

[fullofpink]

I'm hesitant about a museum studies program, mainly because I'm more interested in education than the business side of things.

Museum studies touches on business, but it's more about how museum's work and the philosophy behind the practice. Most of the people I know who have received museum studies degrees have gotten jobs in education. If you go for a MA in Art History - you won't really touch on or develop upon your understanding of museums as a whole, and most of your work will deal strictly with learning the history of art. Your thesis will be on something art-related. If you went the museums studies track, you'll have museum classes and regular art history classes (just not as many) and you are pretty much free to develop any sort of thesis topic relevant to your interests. One of my museum studies friends wrote their thesis on the development and construction of a museum's permanent exhibition that she worked on as an intern - so it included both the research component and the museum philosophy.

fullofpink-Thanks too! It's tough, because I'm kind of set on staying in NYC, don't want to apply to PhD programs, and am trying to get excited about a MA in Art History (which, I think I will) but the Theory program is what really interests me. Just in your opinion, if a MA in Art History and a MA in Museum Studies are worth essentially the same with experience, then would the Theory program be in that line as well? All of my museum experience has been in education...and it is indeed a small world of who you know...

You should do what is best for you. Right now you want to work in eduction, but really there are other avenues than a museum for employment after getting a MA - and even more important, you may change your mind about your choice of job in the middle of your program. If you love the Theory program, it doesn't hurt to apply (and since you are nearby, it helps to stop in and get a feel for the place although it isn't up yet). Unfortunately, I can't comment on the theory program because I do not know anything about the School of Visual Arts. If it has a good reputation, it may be one of those places whose reputation rarely crosses it's city's border. In that respect, if you wanted to leave NY, you might have difficulty explaining the quality of education you got from this place if others have not heard of it. Again - I don't know - it could be one of the top places for the arts. Art Historians tend to be very traditional; while you will see many who embrace new ideas and change, there are even more who are set in the old ways, who want tradition programs and recognizable names. It's those kind of boundaries that you need to discern what risk it is worth to you.

[CoffeeMug]

Coffee Mug-Thanks for your input! I've been going back and forth, because I could see myself wanting to curate one day--education at many of the museums I've worked for still involves A LOT of research, and generally works pretty closely with the curators. I'm hesitant about a museum studies program, mainly because I'm more interested in education than the business side of things. I know the well-rounded experience is important, but since I'm so focused on education/programming...What area of museums do you want to work in Coffee Mug?

Arts Administration and Museum Studies programs are really what you make of it, which was appealing to me. As my cohort and I begin out thesis this summer, we have a really wide variety of topics. Yes, there are a lot of business-y ones like membership programs, fundraising and governmental support for the arts, but theres also some curatorial thesis topics, and education. Mine will be about how museum educators can use different types of technology to teach. As Fullofpink says, there are a lot of administrative courses (which at times i dislike) but if I ever want to run an education department, i sure better know how a multi-million-dollar budget works, etc.

If you go the Museum/Administration route, see how long the program is. A 2 year program has intro classes the first year and a sub-specialization the second year, whereas the one year programs are *very* general. Also, be aware that a Masters in Art History will not get you too far in museum curatorship. Curators and their assistants also have phds. Now, if you would want to curate something like a residency program or be an independent curator, the masters would be enough.

Part of this, you must also remember is who wants you, meaning, what are your past experiences? Have you ever worked in a gallery? That might land you a spot in an Arts Admin program. Have you assisted with an exhibition catalogue? that might get you into art history.

[losemygrip]

Honestly, for Museum Ed you could also go the Education route--assuming you could stand the pointless, boring, repetitive coursework. But I really do think there are actual museum education masters programs somewhere, and if you're really focused on that, that's what you should aim for. You do NOT need an art history MA to do museum ed. In fact, an ideal museum ed person might have an undergrad degree in education, and a grad degree in museum studies.

[fullofpink]

You do NOT need an art history MA to do museum ed. In fact, an ideal museum ed person might have an undergrad degree in education, and a grad degree in museum studies.

If you want to work in an art museum, some form of background in art history is absolutely required. An application with an undergraduate degree in education and a masters degree in museum studies would be on the dismissed pile faster than you can snap. An undergraduate degree in art history, and a masters in either museum studies or art history is very acceptable (as long as you have plenty of experience working in the education department in museums).

I actually know educators who have two masters degrees: one in art history, the other in museum education.

Museum education is a VERY popular field - actually, any job in the arts sector is very competitive and many candidates are very (or even over-) qualified for open positions. Being the strongest applicant you can be (and, in museums, that usually involves WORKING in a museum A LOT) is your best bet.

[losemygrip]

Well, I've definitely known people in museum ed without any degrees in art history. FYI.

[fullofpink]

Well, I've definitely known people in museum ed without any degrees in art history. FYI.

People who want to work in art museums? Or people who want to get a museums education (not particular to which kind of museum they work in, or interested in a particular museum but not necessarily art history). There are people from all over who go into museum studies, but that doesn't mean that they are well-suited for an ART museum education position.

[leilamay]

Hi I am new to grad cafe, and there was not a way for me to post a new topic-weird.

A couple questions- has anyone applied to the Art History program UCR to focus on photography? What kind of GRE scores would I need? I am currently in an MFA program at a CSU (which seems to be a 'lesser' school) but I went to a great private art school in CA for my undergrad.

thanks for any feedback on the GRE.

[speculum]

Hi!

I know I'm a little late to the topic, but I am going through the same decision right now so maybe I can help: Art History, Museum Education, or Museum Studies? At first I was set on Museum Studies, thinking Art History would be too academic but after speaking to many Museum professionals I decided Art History was much more respectable than Museum Studies. The level of work required is generally more rigorous and the professional development and pedagogy that you would learn in Museum Studies/Education can be learned on the job.

The two Masters (one in Art History and one in Museum Ed) is my general plan. It is MUCH easier to acquire a Museum Education Masters while working full time than it is with Art History, thus I am applying to Art History programs for now, but trying to find TERMINAL (no PhDs to compete with) MA programs with some focus on Museum Studies.

Tufts, GWU and IFA all have Museum Studies components in their Art History Masters (IFA has a Museum Studies certificate, geared toward curatorial studies)

You might also want to check out NYU's Arts Education program, it has more of a Visual Arts tilt but I know people who are pleased with it and it is def applicable to museums.

Finally, Bank Street has a Museum Education degree that also gets you certified as a NYC public school teacher: a very practical degree although there is absolutely no art history to it.

Hope this helps, I know it is a tough decision!

[Pictureit24]

I'm currently a masters student at the Georgetown University program (which is Art & Museum Studies combined, with a semester of study at the Sotheby's Institute of Art--a very unique offering of this program). This program can be as museum or art history focused as you'd like, and combines internship experience, which is fantastic when you're studying in the DC area.

Just some food for thought!

[shwhsx]

I'm currently a masters student at the Georgetown University program (which is Art & Museum Studies combined, with a semester of study at the Sotheby's Institute of Art--a very unique offering of this program). This program can be as museum or art history focused as you'd like, and combines internship experience, which is fantastic when you're studying in the DC area.

Just some food for thought!

Hi, I am on the waiting list of Georgetown. do you think this one-year program is not long enough in preparation for a professional career in the museums?

[fullofpink]

Hi, I am on the waiting list of Georgetown. do you think this one-year program is not long enough in preparation for a professional career in the museums?

Your education should be fine - Georgetown is a reputable program. It's your experience that will land a job - so intern, intern, intern! Oh, and network - but that should be easy if you are in DC (it's literally the capital of networking).