delete

[chessie]

delete.

[frankdux]

if you are applying for fall of 2009 i'd be more concerned with the fact it is mid december and you are still uncertain about 2 of your LOR writers.

but yeah, that combined GRE score would probably get your app tossed into the garbage at some schools that use the GRE as a minimum cutoff. not to sound mean, but i can't imagine ivy league schools accepting people into PhD programs with sub-1000 GRE scores.

[chessie]

The LOR situation is something I am still trying to rectify.

Previous, successful, Ivy League grad credentials won't outweigh a low GRE? Ugh.

[lotf629]

Hi chessie,

Get on the phone *right now* and call those guys.

At top-tier programs, I think that your application is unlikely to be competitive even if the LORs come in. Here's why: there are only a few spots at those programs, and there are going to be plenty of other people with your grades, background, and history of presentations who also have much stronger GREs and who have three or four powerful, enthusiastic LORs. Even though I'm guessing American studies is relatively less competitive than a program like English or history, I'm still betting that you're competing directly with at least nine other people for a spot. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong... It's not that you're unqualified, necessarily; it's just that you won't be the most qualified relative to everybody else applying, which is what you have to be in order to get accepted.

At mid/low programs, you might have a shot if those letters arrve.

I don't know your circumstances, but it sounds to me like you should really think about applying next year. I'm sure that just a little study would raise those GREs significantly. What's more, then you'd have the time to get those recommenders on the ball.

Best of luck!

[lauras]

Just based on the other credentials you list, a low GRE score makes it sound like either you are not a good test taker, OR you were cavalier about preparing for the test because you're smart and probably never had a problem testing before.

The last time you took a standardized test was probably as a Junior in High School, so you've probably forgotten how much you practiced for your SATs. It was probably part of your class curiculum, so you didn't even realize you were practicing.

I think everyone, both the applicants and the admissions committees, sort of have a mild (and healthy) contempt for standardized testing and consider GREs the least important part of the application. As you say, the rest of your credentials are very very good, publications, good ivy league grades. But a 300 is really low, (sorry, not meaning to be rude). It doesn't reflect on your intelligence, but it does reflect on your preparation of the application materials. Math is kind of like language. You have to practice it or it goes away and a 300 score says, "I didn't even bother to take a practice test and left this for the last minute."

I have to agree with some of the other posters here who are saying apply next year. Low scores may not torpedo every chance you have at grad school, but they won't help you any in the most competative spots. Retake next year. Waiting one year is better than settling for a program you don't want for the next 6.

[studentfromLA]

I'd say you really should retake the GRE to give yourself the best shot at getting in somewhere where you would want to go. Even in a non-math based major field of study, I think getting below a 300Q will hurt you, and you can definitely improve on the verbal score as well. The GRE website has good statistics on average GRE scores by intended graduate major. For American Studies, it's Verbal 548 Quant 560. Here's the table (American Studies is on page 7):

http://www.ets.org/Media/Tests/GRE/pdf/gre_0809_guide_web_table%204.pdf

[chessie]

Thanks for everyone's advice on this subject.

I have no experience ever taking a standardized test, aside from maybe whatever they make you do in elem. school. I went to an alternative highschool with no formal grading system, and to Goddard College for my undergrad (back when it was on-campus) -- which certainly didn't consider standardization, much less require it (so I've never taken the SAT). We didn't have grades or majors, either. Somehow I managed to go from that into Columbia grad, and did well, but we'll see about this time round...

[seunghwane]

I'm sorry but this is some food for thought:

Most NCAA basketball players got better scores than 870 on the old SAT.

Think NBA players... yes, the illiterate ones too.

[chessie]

RIght. That's helpful.

[Minnesotan]

I would be wary of those averages, too. They include people who are not accepted into PhD programs, people who take it in their sophomore year as practice, and people who have been out of school for 20 years.

I would aim for a 95% in the important category, and at least 60% in the less-important one for your field. Anything less makes you look either A) lazy, or inconsistent.

You really don't want people to start asking questions about thing like grade inflation, student motivation, or work ethic. These are topics you don't need an adcom to bring up when looking over your app. among a stack of 600.

[rising_star]

The posters who have told you not to apply are being too harsh. If you've gotten good feedback from the program directors, go ahead and put in an application to those programs.

[studentfromLA]

I posted that link to the GRE website stats as a gauge only. The stats include seniors and people who have graduated in the past couple of years. No sophomores practicing on the exam are included, and the major categories are identified by the test takers -- i.e. people who said they were applying for graduate study in American Studies. I would venture a guess that the average scores at actual schools of students who were accepted are higher than those posted on the GRE website -- I know that my department's GRE scores were higher than the ones on the GRE website for my field of study.

In any event, I didn't say the OP shouldn't apply, I said he or she should consider re-taking the GRE. Personally, I couldn't see going through the application process with those scores. It's too time consuming and I wouldn't want to burn recommender bridges with an application that I was not at least somewhat confident would get me admitted. You can't go back and re-do your GPA but you sure can re-do the GRE. Some people post on here fretting about 10 points here or there, with generally decent scores, and to those people, I don't even bother to reply, because 10 points higher in Q or V is not going to make or break an application. This poster had below a 300 Q, and a 570 V, which is well under a 1000 combined. Maybe some schools and some fields of study don't put weight on the GRE, but all that I applied to did, and if the OP is turning in an otherwise competitive application, why handicap him/herself with a bad GRE score? You can re-take the GRE up to 5 times in a calendar year and can retest the next month. There is still time for the OP to retake for this application cycle, assuming their app deadlines are in January/February. I tested in early January of last year for Jan. 15 and Feb. 1 deadlines and was fine in terms of timing.

In other words, unless the OP has a line on a department that wants him or her and the application is a formality, I personally wouldn't send out general applications with that GRE score. But that's just me, YMMV.

[misterpat]

Rising_star is usually full of good advice, so still apply. But, and I'm sorry to say this, 300 is really really low. I just looked it up and thats about 5th percentile. I've been worried about my 58th percentile AW score catching the wrong person's attention. You might have scored better had you answered A for every question.

If you have a copy of an old math test somewhere in your house, maybe include it in your supplementary materials so they know that you are capable of adding and subtracting.

[studentfromLA]

chessie, I would ask the department head you are in conversation with how much value they put on the GRE, and if it they consider it when making funding decisions. As rising_star noted, if you have a line on the department (or they have a line on you), that's a very different situation than if you are just sending out general applications.

From what you posted, you sound like you have a competitive application and departments that are already interested in you. My personal insight comes from the perspective of "shooting blind" so to speak -- when I applied to graduate school last year, I knew where I wanted to study and what I wanted to study, but had no connection to the schools I was applying to, so assumed my applications were going to be judged on all the merits. If you have info that your GRE score won't be relevant, then don't worry, but I wouldn't make that assumption personally, unless I had direct info from the source. After I was admitted to three programs last year, I visited and talked to them before deciding, and one school told me that my Q score worried them, and I had a 690 (it was an econ program, so understandable that they were looking for high quant scores, and despite the number, a 690 last year was 70th percentile). I was accepted to that program despite what they thought was an unimpressive score, but didn't get funding.

If you took anything I said to be unnecessarily negative, I'm sorry about that. The good and bad thing about these forums, is if you ask a question, people will answer. You might not like the answer, but it's great that we have a place to talk about it. I didn't find this site until after I'd submitted my apps last year, and in a way I'm glad, because in retrospect, I broke a lot of the "rules" in terms of what one is supposed to include (or not include) in their personal statements, for instance, and still got accepted at 3 out of 4 schools. I may have changed things for the worse if I'd been asking for feedback prior to submitting the apps if I'd found this place sooner. Or, I may have just chickened-out altogether, if I'd gotten negative feedback during app time. So take what people say for what it's worth, and go with your gut -- only you truly can gauge how well your app represents you for the particular programs you are applying to!

[nsk]

I hope I am not too late in adding my reply... My wife got into many ivy league schools (Columbia, Harvard, Stanford) with a GRE score in Math around 300. She ended up attending Harvard (Romance Languages) and was told that the admissions committee really liked her writing sample (a term paper she wrote for masters level course). so, I wouldn't worry if your department is more in the humanities side as math scores have little relevance (in my judgement) to what you want to pursue.

Hope this helps and good luck.