How to Discuss Research Ideas?

[samarth]

Hi,

I find that discussing ideas with my advisers or peers, dilutes my ownership to extents that I am sometimes left out.

For example, I discussed an interesting idea with my adviser but my adviser felt it would be a deviation from my current projects and we could not immediately find some solutions. He promised we would comeback to it later.

Some months later, I found out that he has thought of a work around and assigned that project to some undergraduates and has started publishing with them!

I subtly confronted him but he maintained that it was a different thread than the one I was discussing, even so, having put the seed in his mind, I would have liked him to have me in the loop.

Nevertheless, I would like to ask the forum, How to professionally convey ideas to adviser and peers so as to retain ownership but get good advise?

Thanks.

[runonsentence]

This recent thread might be of interest to you:

[samarth]

This recent thread might be of interest to you:

Thanks, but I dont think my problem is that serious. I believe that it was an honest oversight from my adviser, he is usually prompt in giving due credit.

I want to ask the forum, how they ensure all discussions are made in a format that is official or on record. Since, a lot of times my adviser repeats back things I told him over coffee or something as his own ideas.

[rainy_day]

Having a paper trail might help you out here. Maybe after you discuss something with this advisor, it would be worthwhile to write an email saying something along the lines of "it was great to talk with you about X. I'm glad you liked my idea, Y." this might help remind your prof where his ideas are coming from and might give you some confidence in asserting "wait, Y was my idea."

Good luck

[rising_star]

Honestly, it seems to me like something you could frame by saying that you'd like to be kept in the loop on what your advisor is doing so that you can make sure your projects don't overlap with it and/or identify additional areas where you can contribute.

[samarth]

Thanks guys.

@rising_star: I would like to make it clear to him that anything I discuss with him still remains "mine" and simply "citing" me doesn't suffice.My colleagues have suggested not discussing any parallel thoughts during any meetings. I find that hard to do. Is there any other way?

[rising_star]

If he is citing you, then he is acknowledging that the ideas are yours. I don't understand what else you want. It's the same as when you cite an argument or research study in your writing. Your advisor is citing you in conversations with others, not taking credit for your contributions, right? So do you want him to hammer people over the head with the idea that it was YOUR idea? I think you need to tell us specifically what it is you want.

[InquilineKea]

Hm though - the thing with ideas is that a lot of times, people forget where they heard the idea from (professors have a lot to do, and they often forget a surprisingly large amount of info about their students).

Alternatively, the same idea may have come up multiple times.

One possible tip for retaining ownership: Post all your ideas on a site that uses non-abusable timestamps. That can clearly establish that you had the idea at that time (and probably first)

[runonsentence]

But...isn't the idea of academia to share ideas, with due credit, and build knowledge in the field?

I'm with rising_star.

[samarth]

I think you misunderstand. I am all for free exchange of ideas. But picture this scenario.

I spend hours on tech sites reading blogs and stuff and tell my adviser "hey this new technology is the next big thing, lets work on it, i built this initial prototype over the weekend isnt it cool?".

and he says "sure its great, but finish ur current project first" or "u always deviate, stick to what ur doing" and two days later, he says "remember that technology ur talking about.. share that prototype with these undergrads" and then he turns to them and says "this is all his idea, i dont knw anything abt this technolgy, feel free to disturb him anytime with ur questions" and then he turns to me and says "thats ok with u rite?". what am i supposed to say?

Just yesterday, i made a ppt presentation for my seminar, he just handed it to his other student and said, i like this template better than urs, so use it. I spent hours on creating that template.

[runonsentence]

In the first scenario, your advisor is paying your idea a compliment, by wanting you to show it to the undergrads, and giving you all due credit for coming up with it. If you're frustrated with him dumping the work and responsibilities of setting up this project with undergrads, then that's one thing, but I don't see how this scenario shows him taking credit for your idea.

The second scenario also awards you due credit AND another compliment, and is what I'd call the very definition of a "free exchange of ideas."

It sounds as if you're simply unhappy about sharing ideas with anyone else. Which counters your claim about embracing a free exchange of knowledge.

[fuzzylogician]

I think you misunderstand. I am all for free exchange of ideas. But picture this scenario.

I spend hours on tech sites reading blogs and stuff and tell my adviser "hey this new technology is the next big thing, lets work on it, i built this initial prototype over the weekend isnt it cool?".

and he says "sure its great, but finish ur current project first" or "u always deviate, stick to what ur doing" and two days later, he says "remember that technology ur talking about.. share that prototype with these undergrads" and then he turns to them and says "this is all his idea, i dont knw anything abt this technolgy, feel free to disturb him anytime with ur questions" and then he turns to me and says "thats ok with u rite?". what am i supposed to say?

Just yesterday, i made a ppt presentation for my seminar, he just handed it to his other student and said, i like this template better than urs, so use it. I spent hours on creating that template.

I don't understand what the problem is. Your advisor not only acknowledged your idea but decided to share it with his team, with you as a consultant. That sounds like a huge compliment to me. It's involving you in the work but not dumping it all on you, while making sure that you will get due credit for your contribution. As far as the presentation is concerned, again, your efforts were recognized. What would you gain if no one else ever used your template? It seems to me that you are being recognized for your efforts and good results and you should be very happy, not complaining.

[Eigen]

So you have an idea, and get it started. Your advisor doesn't think you have time to work on it, and would prefer you to focus on what you're currently doing.

He then gives you two undergrads that you can use to get the project done, while maintaining that it is your idea, and telling them to report to you.

That sounds just about right, to me- he's leaving you ownership of your idea, and even giving you a team to help you work on it since he feels like you're too busy. Learning how to guide undergrads on ideas you come up with is an essential step in transitioning to post-doc and PI- learning how to come up with ideas, make sure they have a decent chance of working (prototype) and then passing them off onto someone under you who you can guide to finish the project.

[samarth]

Thanks guys for your comments, I didnt mean to rant, I do understand the things you are saying. Its incredible how positive your replies are.