Am I out of luck?

[northstar22]

Hi!

I'm new here, so I'll give you guys a little background on myself. I'm currently a 24-year-old first-year grad student pursuing an MPA and a regional planning certificate from a university in Minnesota.

Although my undergrad major was in a (somewhat) unrelated field, I've always had a strong interest in public policy, political science and rural / small town economic development.

I have always wanted to become a university professor, but I decided on an MPA over an MA in poli. sci. primarily to placate my parents, who don't see academia as a realistic goal and would rather me "get a normal job" (yes, big mistake, I know). Although I thought I could make a public sector / nonprofit career work, I have decided that I have ZERO desire to enter the 9 to 5 world . . . I finished my undergrad in 2009, and I've hated every minute of the "work" I've done over the past two years.

However, I LOVE academia . . . teaching, researching, reading, conferences, writing, even living in college towns . . . everything. After finishing my degree, I want to pursue a Ph.D. in public policy and enter academia, preferably as a teaching professor. However, I know that most people pursuing MPAs are doing so with a "work / career" focus.

Is it even possible to enter a decent poli. sci. or public policy Ph.D. program with an MPA, or will it hold me back because it is a "professional" degree? Will it hurt me in seeking a faculty job down the road?

[fuzzylogician]

Maybe someone who knows your field better will correct me but I think your current situation may make your life difficult but it should not make it impossible for you to apply and be accepted to a PhD program. The question is what kind of research opportunities you have in your current program and whether or not you'll be able to secure strong LORs, as well as have a suitable writing sample, if one is required. Since you've identified your next goal early enough, you should have time to actively seek out research opportunities and to cultivate relationships with potential LOR writers. You could structure your SOP in a way that addresses your past choices, your current interests and your efforts to make the necessary adjustments to apply for a PhD and start a career in academia rather than continue in the professional track. Seems to me that if you are careful about representing yourself like that and if you make the effort to have the necessary experience, you should do fine when you apply.

[northstar22]

Thanks!

I'm going to complete a thesis (with original research) as part of my program, so I assume that will cover the writing sample. Although most MPA students don't take the thesis option, it is there for those "pursuing further graduate study." As far as other opportunities, there are several seminars and research opportunities available. I'm also working on building connections for LORs . . . I know my advisor has similar interests to mine, so I'm trying to build a connection there.

For what it's worth, the University of Kansas and the University of Indiana (the two top schools in my field) do mention accepting PhD students with MPA degrees, but they both mention accepting a "maximum of 30 credits" from an MPA. I assume that's a bad sign, but I'm still in "clueless noob" mode. I do know that IU's program, in particular, seems to line up with my interests very well, though I don't think I have a shot of getting in

Edited August 29, 2011 by northstar22

[rising_star]

For what it's worth, the University of Kansas and the University of Indiana (the two top schools in my field) do mention accepting PhD students with MPA degrees, but they both mention accepting a "maximum of 30 credits" from an MPA. I assume that's a bad sign, but I'm still in "clueless noob" mode. I do know that IU's program, in particular, seems to line up with my interests very well, though I don't think I have a shot of getting in

30 credits accepted is pretty much the norm. It's also about the number of credits you'll earn from coursework during a two year masters program. So, it's definitely not a bad sign that they'll accept a maximum 30 credits. Given that you're doing the MPA, I would make sure any PhD programs you are applying to will accept transfer at least 9 transfer credits.

[northstar22]

I was able to speak with one of the chairs of my department a few minutes ago, and she said that my MPA won't keep me from getting into a poli. sci., public administration or public policy program, as long as I have clear research interests (which I do). She said that students in my situation have made the leap before.

30 credits accepted is pretty much the norm. It's also about the number of credits you'll earn from coursework during a two year masters program. So, it's definitely not a bad sign that they'll accept a maximum 30 credits. Given that you're doing the MPA, I would make sure any PhD programs you are applying to will accept transfer at least 9 transfer credits.

Thanks.

My MPA program is 36 credits (including the thesis), 30 classroom / seminar credits. I also know that 30 is the maximum they will accept. I'm not sure if you'd know this, but, generally, do schools typically tend to accept 30 credits toward the PhD requirements, or do they usually accept far less? It seems like I'm wasting my time if none of the classes I'm taking now will transfer.

Edited August 29, 2011 by northstar22

[long_time_lurker]

You shouldn't look at it as a waste, these are courses that will lead to your MPA degree which you will always be able to use in the future, in particular if the academia route doesn't work out, or not right away. Tenure track jobs as you know are dwindling and hard to get, so if you can work a day job and adjunct on the side until you get one, you will be better off.

Whether or not the credits transfer is really a function of: 1) whether the coursework you've taken in course X corresponds to the coursework in course Y at New University, and; 2) How reluctant New University (or more importantly, New Department) is to award transfer credits for a variety of other reasons (chiefly, $$$).

[northstar22]

You shouldn't look at it as a waste, these are courses that will lead to your MPA degree which you will always be able to use in the future, in particular if the academia route doesn't work out, or not right away. Tenure track jobs as you know are dwindling and hard to get, so if you can work a day job and adjunct on the side until you get one, you will be better off.

Whether or not the credits transfer is really a function of: 1) whether the coursework you've taken in course X corresponds to the coursework in course Y at New University, and; 2) How reluctant New University (or more importantly, New Department) is to award transfer credits for a variety of other reasons (chiefly, $$$).

That's exactly what I thought was the case, and pretty much what I was afraid of. So basically, I would be starting from scratch in a PhD program, in the same position as a new student fresh out of undergrad. Great. Of course, I have no one to blame but myself. I really wish I had gone the MA route instead.

As for tenure-track jobs dwindling -- they are, but so are ALL jobs in this economy. Colleges will always need professors, so I don't see the career path going away any time soon. I understand your point about having a fallback (gotta pay the bills one way or the other), but I really don't want to get stuck in "fallback mode" again. My undergrad degree was a practical "fallback." The problem with fallback jobs is that they're hard to leave . . . they offer steady money and stability, which is really hard to give up, even for your dream career. I just really don't want to end up stuck in a day job wishing I had made it into academia.

Edited August 29, 2011 by northstar22

[rising_star]

That's exactly what I thought was the case, and pretty much what I was afraid of. So basically, I would be starting from scratch in a PhD program, in the same position as a new student fresh out of undergrad. Great. Of course, I have no one to blame but myself. I really wish I had gone the MA route instead.

I don't think you understand what people are telling you in this thread. You may want to re-read it.

In general, a program will only let you transfer in courses that are relevant to what you are studying as a PhD student. My department let me transfer in as many courses as I wanted up to the maximum of 30 credits. Obviously, this varies from one department to the next. If you want to make sure you aren't "starting from scratch in a PhD program, in the same position as a new student fresh out of undergrad"* then you contact programs in advance and ask how they deal with transferring credits.

*Also, you won't be the same as a student fresh out of undergrad because you will have experience doing graduate level work and research, have more refined research interests, and be able to progress at a faster rate.

[northstar22]

Sorry, I did misunderstand your post! Also, I understand that credits will only transfer if there is an equivalent at the new university. I'm sorry if I came across as "whiny," that wasn't my intent.

I guess I'm not "out of luck," which is a huge relief! Thanks to all for your answers to my questions.

Edited August 30, 2011 by northstar22

[balderdash]

...will it hold me back because it is a "professional" degree? Will it hurt me in seeking a faculty job down the road?

Prima facie, no. (See CBlatts, Harvard MPA/ID).

[rising_star]

Also, I understand that credits will only transfer if there is an equivalent at the new university.

Where did you get that from? That's not what I said. I said they generally transfer if they are relevant to your PhD focus. I transferred in courses that have no equivalent at my current university without any problems.