Low Quant, High Verbal for IR?

[Chakra113]

Schools Applying To: (Tentatively) WW, Goldman, HKS, Columbia, GTown, Oxford, U of M

Undergraduate institution: Top 100 Public Institution

Undergraduate GPA: 3.3

Undergraduate Major: International Relations

GRE: 510-610 Q and 630-730 V (Don't know writing but hopefully 4.5-6)

Internships: Governor's Office, Senator's Office in DC, White House Internship

Extracurriculars: (Pres.)Founded nationally recognized club endorsed by Bono, (Treasurer) LGBT Activism and (V.P.)freshmen mentoring

Abroad: 1 academic year at Oxford (3.85 GPA obtained); 1 month volunteering in Costa Rica; 1 week in Rwanda studying development on behalf nationally recognized poverty organization

Diversity: LGBT

I'm wondering regarding my GRE score. Will my internships/extracurriculars make up for my low quant? Should I just retake it or re-adjust my schools? Any construcive thoughts are welcomed :]

[Mal83]

I don't know exactly how the new GRE scoring system works, will you eventually get your actual score or is the range the final word? Anyway, if you end up at the top of that range I wouldn't say that that's low for quant. It will not be weighted as heavily as everything else. Although, it might come into play more if you have to indicate on the application a concentration that you're interested in, if you choose something that is more quantitative like economics, your quant score might be a factor. Your other issue though and probably more importantly is your GPA, that's great that you earned a 3.85 at Oxford but your overall 3.3 might make you less competitive at these schools. Sometimes a very high GRE score can help offset a lower GPA but these ranges probably won't do that for you. Have you looked at their websites yet to see the stats of the average accepted MA candidate? I don't want to discourage you and it's always a good idea to have a "reach" or "dream" school but your expectations should be realistic as well. It also depends on your priorities, do you just want to go to grad school at the best school you can get into or is it one of these schools or nothing?

I have no problem sharing that I too ended up with a 3.3 GPA (3.35 to be precise) so I know what means to have that dream school. I was waitlisted at mine, which was devastating at the time, but all was well when I received my acceptance letter a few months later. I knew that my GPA is what waitlisted me, as it was below the average, but I think with a lot of luck, as in enough people declined their spot, and good professional experience I made it in and I'm loving it. So I'm proof that your stats don't have to fit in exactly with the typical accepted student, but you will have to have something stellar in order to make up for the weaker areas of your application. Your internships and extracurriculars definitely seem impressive, but not knowing what the details are of this club that you founded, it is needless to say we won't know if they will be enough until you apply and you receive a decision. You have to keep in mind that the bulk of the applicant pool will have resumes and internships just like this. Also, while the LGBT work you've done is super, I'm not sure how it is relevant to IR, unless you plan on pursuing human rights as a concentration or something like that. Of course you will have other components in your application like letters of recommendation, writing sample if necessary, and statement of purpose. Those are considered carefully in order to determine if you're a good fit for the program. You might have perfect stats but if you can't express why you are pursuing the degree, how the work you've done so far is relevant, and what your goals are then you might not make the cut. So it really is the total package that gets looked at. I remember looking into Gtown briefly and just getting the feeling that despite having served in the Peace Corps, it was out of my league, from an admissions standpoint that is. Have you considered GW's IR program? I mean it's slightly less competitive in that there are generally more spots available. The exact number for the fall 2011 cycle at The Elliott school was 350 as opposed to I believe much smaller classes at Gtown and Princeton. I couldn't be happier with the International Development program myself.

A few others to look into would be American University and George Mason. If you can manage the application fees I would apply to as many of the schools you listed as possible as well as at least one of these others. You might also want to start getting in touch with admissions people at your top choices to see if they can assist you in determining whether or not retaking the GRE would help or even to apply. If they encourage you to do so then put every bit of effort into the application you can muster, if not, then well at least you'll save the time, effort, and money. If you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask.

Edited October 16, 2011 by Mal83

[Chakra113]

Thanks for your thoughts! Eventually the GRE will give me a specific number, just after the testing exam the computer gives you a range of scores. I'm not interested in economics so I don't have to worry about putting that as my major. I'm more interested in government so I'm hoping that my internships will show a progression.

Regarding GPA, I suppose I could always average them out, I think that would bring me up to like a 3.5 but my home university doesn't add Oxford's GPA so they're going to have to be looked at separate by each school unfortunately.

I'm certainly considering GW and American too. I checked Berkeley's stats and I fit into their range for all of them, so that's good. I think I'm just going to apply to as many as possible and see where I get in and then look at my options from there. I'm also looking at Oxford and LSE in the UK since they don't take the GRE and they know me at Oxford.

[MYRNIST]

I'm wondering regarding my GRE score. Will my internships/extracurriculars make up for my low quant? Should I just retake it or re-adjust my schools? Any construcive thoughts are welcomed :]

Couple of things to say, and forgive me for being blunt.

I think there is dissonance between your candidate profile and the types of schools you're applying for. You have a low GPA, a low GRE, and little IR work experience*; you are applying for an absolute murderers' row of top-tier, extremely selective schools. While none of us are ad-coms, I don't think you'd be competitive for most of the schools you named. Look at the average GPA, test scores, and (most importantly) work experience of WWS, HKS, etc. admits. They are in a different ballpark from where you are.

That doesn't mean you can't have a great career in public policy or are dumb or anything, just that by the artificial metrics people use to determine admissions you are not a super-strong candidate, and that's what you have to be to get into WWS, HKS, etc.

I would consider adding some lower-ranked schools onto your application list. You can still get a very good education, and have a much lower risk of going o-fer on grad admissions.

If you are dead-set on going to those extremely selective schools, the most important thing you can do is get relevant work experience. The GRE is not heavily weighted in MPA/MPP admissions compared to work experience. That said, you still probably want to study up a bit and try to get that quantitative score higher. Look at the median scores for your target schools - you are currently below them, and want to be at least 50th percentile.

*You have some very interesting and cool experiences, but most of it doesn't sound directly IR-related. And since you're coming straight out of undergrad, none of it seems to have been a "job job."

Edited October 17, 2011 by MYRNIST

[JAubrey]

I must concur with MYRNIST, you have a low GPA from a school outside the Top 25/Top 50, low GRE and no applicable work experience.

With your numbers American SIS would be in your wheelhouse, GW a distinct reach and WWS, HKS, GTown not realistic in the least.

[MYRNIST]

I don't know what branch of IR you're interested in (security studies? development? human rights?) but these are all programs worth checking out and seeing if they fit your goals. They also are all far more attainable than the great white whale of WWS/HKS/etc.

UT LBJ

Pitt MSPIA

Georgia Tech Sam Nunn

U-Washington Jackson

Denver Korbel (a bit of a reach for you, but worth a shot)

Hope this helps.

[Mal83]

The only thing I would add to this is that for development programs, generally and absolutely for George Washington and American, professional experience in the field is required for admission...definitely stick with IR or IA, it's a more friendly to those straight out of undergrad.

[MYRNIST]

Yeah, pretty much the best advice that can be given is to go do some interesting IR-related things for a few years and then apply. You'll be smarter, have a better idea of what you want in your career, and also be a massively more attractive candidate for grad schools.