Questions on the master's thesis?

[nehs]

Hello All!

I am meeting a professor this week for some ideas on thesis research topics. I have a list of ideas with me .However, I have still not thought if I want to go ahead with the thesis or sit for the comp. My Dept. gives me the option. So before I meet him, I would be happy if I get some perspective here:

My specific questions:

1. Typically, how many months does a research go on at master's level? I'm in a M.S program. is this time frame predictable or can it go way beyond the planned deadline?

I was thinking of making the thesis draft in the Spring 2012 semester and also registering for one thesis course(my Dept requires us to register for research courses). So that means 3 credits of research will be done in the spring. I can do upto 6 credits of research. Then in the summer, I work towards the thesis writing and finally submit it in Fall 2012.

2. I've never written a thesis before, written a few papers for 10-20 pages though. In my Dept, the final thesis is around 40 -50 pages long. So is this manageable?

3. What exactly is thesis approval/defence? Is there a huge audience or something like that? How high are chances of rejection for a master's level thesis?

This is important to me because my Dept. does not allow us to sit for the exam if we decide to go the thesis way! So I need to be clear on my options.

Finally, I hve a silly question - how much depth does this research go into? I would imagine it is not as deep as a PhD research but I'm still curious. Sorry for bothering you guys. I hope some one can help me

ThankYou

[robot_hamster]

I can try to answer some of these. Time depends on whether or not you need to do field work. I have seen people work on their thesis starting shortly after their first semester and finish their final semester (so let's say 3+ semesters and the summer in between). I have also seen people do it during their final 2 semesters. As far as length goes, it can vary. I think 50 pages is manageable, usually they expect it to include a pretty deep literature review (at least at my school you do) so that takes up some room. Let's see, my school just has you present your thesis to your committee and anyone else you want to be there. I haven't heard of anyone being rejected after defending their thesis since their committee would be approving everything prior to this. Finally, in regards to depth of the research, my thesis is really just a large expansion of a research project I thought up. I have seen other people do something that would practically qualify as a PhD dissertation. I suppose it depends on what your research topic is and how far you are able to "run" with it. Sometimes you stumble upon something really good and it takes you farther than you originally thought.

[fuzzylogician]

Lets see. I've never done a Masters in the US, my program is PhD only and I am in a different field so [insert appropriate disclaimers here].

1. Typically, how many months does a research go on at master's level? I'm in a M.S program. is this time frame predictable or can it go way beyond the planned deadline?

I was thinking of making the thesis draft in the Spring 2012 semester and also registering for one thesis course(my Dept requires us to register for research courses). So that means 3 credits of research will be done in the spring. I can do upto 6 credits of research. Then in the summer, I work towards the thesis writing and finally submit it in Fall 2012.

From what I can gather the answer to the "time to completion" question depends on the field and, importantly, also on your advisor and her expectations. Some advisors are very practical in getting students out the door on time, others have higher expectations and may keep students longer (this has advantages--e.g. a better worked-out final product--and disadvantages--e,g, taking longer, which may be unnecessary in some cases, for example if you want to go into industry or if a less-developed project would be still be strong enough to get you into a good PhD program a year earlier). It also depends on whether or not you already have an idea for a topic or even an existing project in mind which could be adapted/expanded upon, or if you have to start from scratch. If you already know the literature on your topic, that's a big advantage. If you have to spend some time reading before you can even define a topic, expect to take longer. Your plan does sound feasible to me, time-wise, but again, it depends on the specifics of your situation.

2. I've never written a thesis before, written a few papers for 10-20 pages though. In my Dept, the final thesis is around 40 -50 pages long. So is this manageable?

Yes, of course. Writing is an acquired skill, it may be difficult initially but eventually everybody gets the job done. You have to learn to write if you want to get your ideas out to a wide audience. Your advisor should help you with organization and revisions of the paper.

3. What exactly is thesis approval/defence? Is there a huge audience or something like that? How high are chances of rejection for a master's level thesis?

This is important to me because my Dept. does not allow us to sit for the exam if we decide to go the thesis way! So I need to be clear on my options.

This, too, is something to ask your advisor. In my department you can't fail a defense because the committee simply won't let you defend before they think you are ready. At most you may be asked to make revisions before filing the paper. Defenses are usually in front of just your committee; some students choose to have public defenses (in some fields that is the norm for PhD, but I've never heard of a public Masters defense). This is something the other students in your department would know, you should ask around. They should also be able to tell you if other students have failed their defenses and what happened to them in the end. Also, if there are program requirements or some student handbook online or elsewhere in your department I imagine that this would be a topic that would be covered there.

Finally, I hve a silly question - how much depth does this research go into? I would imagine it is not as deep as a PhD research but I'm still curious.

Some students have wonderfully innovative, thoughtful theses. Others engage a small open problem and offer some (working or non-working) solution. Sometimes just proposing a new dataset that should/could be analyzed by an existing proposal, or a new way of looking at an existing problem, or else tying together ideas that are all already in the literature but have never been brought to bear on the same question, or pointing out problems with some existing theory even if you don't have a full working solution are enough of a contribution for a Masters thesis. It's not expected to be as deep as PhD research -- and rightly so, given time constraints and the level of familiarity that Masters students usually have with their fields compared to a PhD student at the stage of writing a dissertation.

[nehs]

Thanks so much robot_hamster and fuzzylogician. You guys have no idea how helpful you have been. I've been losing sleep over this for a few days now. The thing is I do not want to take the comp exam but most students in my class prefer to do so because they plan on going to work in the industry after ward. I plan the same, however, I would think that a thesis is nevertheless a useful piece of work! Also, I do not have access to students who are doing the thesis research. Its like most have graduated and the 2-3 who choose to do so, are not in any of my classes. So I'm left all alone. duh! To make things cmplicated, I'm am international student and so a little unaware of the processes in the american education system....Well, to cut my story short - THANK YOU!

robot_hamster, I too plan to work on the research in the spring and summer and then sit down to write the thesis in the fall 2012 semester. My defence will , hopefully, be in the same semester. I have to graduate in that Fall semester because of visa issues(F-1 etc). So this makes the decision even more complicated and time lines are very important to me. Well, all I can hope is I graduate in time. I've not even narrowed down on the topic and if I plan to start the research in the spring, my Dept. expects that the proposal should reach them by Dec 15 of the Fall semester which means 1.5 more months for me to decide on the topic. I hope that's enough time.

fuzzylogician, Yes I want to go into industry. Ofcourse, I'm not ruling out PhD in the future but that's some thing I have not planned right now(<5 years). I'm not sure if I already have literature because I have not yet started reading much except for browsing topics on internet, published papers etc. So no topic defined yet. Well, this is the meting I'm having with my professor next week. Hopefully, he can help me.

About failing the defence, I was scared because my Dept allows us to choose between the comp exam and thesis and once we choose our route there is no going back. So failing a thesis defence sounds scary! I would imagine, after reading the replies here, that failing happen primarily because of the documentation part of it and not because of the research..isn't it? My Dept has some training and help for writing thesis papers. So may be when time comes I can use that help.

fuzzy, your ideas about the depth of the research are VERY important to me. I had no idea how deep the master's thesis goes. Now that is comforting to hear that its not really a new topic or new research that counts but could also be adding data to existing topics or adding one-two more points to an existing topic etc....

Thanks again. I will keep you all posted with my progress.

[fuzzylogician]

fuzzylogician, Yes I want to go into industry. Ofcourse, I'm not ruling out PhD in the future but that's some thing I have not planned right now(<5 years). I'm not sure if I already have literature because I have not yet started reading much except for browsing topics on internet, published papers etc. So no topic defined yet. Well, this is the meting I'm having with my professor next week. Hopefully, he can help me.

About failing the defence, I was scared because my Dept allows us to choose between the comp exam and thesis and once we choose our route there is no going back. So failing a thesis defence sounds scary! I would imagine, after reading the replies here, that failing happen primarily because of the documentation part of it and not because of the research..isn't it? My Dept has some training and help for writing thesis papers. So may be when time comes I can use that help.

fuzzy, your ideas about the depth of the research are VERY important to me. I had no idea how deep the master's thesis goes. Now that is comforting to hear that its not really a new topic or new research that counts but could also be adding data to existing topics or adding one-two more points to an existing topic etc....

I feel like I should repeat my disclaimer -- some of these topic may not be acceptable in other fields, I really don't know. But in my field you don't have to do ground-breaking work for a Masters, it's enough to engage with a relatively small problem in some insightful way.

It sounds like you should be taking the comp exam but you should consult with your advisor before you decide. Here are some questions you might want to ask him or else find out through a student or an administrative assistant:

- Is there a student handbook or guide for the program that describes the process of writing a thesis and/or taking comps?

- Can you fail your comps? then what?

- Who decides when you defend? what if your committee thinks you're not ready but your I-20 expires?

- How long do students in the program usually take to finish comps? a thesis?

- How many students have failed their comps in recent years? their thesis defense? what happened to them?

- What does your advisor recommend you do, given that you want to go into industry and are not planning on a PhD in the near future?

- How does the topic-choosing process happen in your program? Will your advisor suggest topics or things to read or are you expected to come up with a topic by yourself? Will he help steer you towards open problems if you define some general areas of interest?

- How extensive does the topic need to be? What topics did your advisor's other advisees have in the recent past? How long did they take to finish?

- How hands-on is the advisor? How often does he meet with students? Will he preempt degree-prolonging blunders like a too-long or not well-defined topic, explorations into tangential fields, writing-process delays? Does he read drafts of chapters? Will he help come up with an outline?

- What kind of timeline would he recommend, in case you choose to write a thesis? Does he think your timeline makes sense?

Good luck!

[nehs]

I feel like I should repeat my disclaimer -- some of these topic may not be acceptable in other fields, I really don't know. But in my field you don't have to do ground-breaking work for a Masters, it's enough to engage with a relatively small problem in some insightful way. Yes, looks like that's how it is in my Dept too.

It sounds like you should be taking the comp exam but you should consult with your advisor before you decide. Well, most students do the comp but I thought research would be nice to add to my resume and also it is considered 2 courses(6 credits) so I don't really need to worry about selecting 2 more courses. Here are some questions you might want to ask him or else find out through a student or an administrative assistant:

- Is there a student handbook or guide for the program that describes the process of writing a thesis and/or taking comps? Yes and I have read these handbooks

- Can you fail your comps? then what? Yes, we are given 2 chances in total

- Who decides when you defend? what if your committee thinks you're not ready but your I-20 expires? not sure on this one. will need to find out.

- How long do students in the program usually take to finish comps? a thesis? comp is usually done in one semester like the semester before graduation. no idea about thesis

- How many students have failed their comps in recent years? their thesis defense? what happened to them?

- What does your advisor recommend you do, given that you want to go into industry and are not planning on a PhD in the near future? Am yet to discuss this with him

- How does the topic-choosing process happen in your program? Will your advisor suggest topics or things to read or are you expected to come up with a topic by yourself? Will he help steer you towards open problems if you define some general areas of interest? I think my Dept mandates that I work with any faculty member and choose his/her area of research topics, the choice is not entirely mine.

- How extensive does the topic need to be? What topics did your advisor's other advisees have in the recent past? How long did they take to finish? I have seen theses of recent students. looks ok to me. Nothing ground breaking.

- How hands-on is the advisor? How often does he meet with students? Will he preempt degree-prolonging blunders like a too-long or not well-defined topic, explorations into tangential fields, writing-process delays? Does he read drafts of chapters? Will he help come up with an outline? I am yet to choose my advisor for the research.

- What kind of timeline would he recommend, in case you choose to write a thesis? Does he think your timeline makes sense?

Good luck!

Appreciate your response here. I've added whatever information I have. I'm really inclined toward the thesis. But will have to sit down with my graduate advosor and figure out which is best for me. The other good thing about the thesis is, I only have to ocmplete 30 credits but with the comp I need to go for 36 credits. So the chances of me finishing up my degree in the next 2 semesters is higher if I choose the thesis option. because i will have to add one thesiss course every semester and do3or 4 other grad courses BUT with the comp, I have to do 5 courses this coming spring(15 credits) which sounds a lot of work!

thanks for ur questions. I'm going to note these and take it to my advisor.

[nehs]

fuzzylogician, is the thesis a total waste for going into the industry?

[fuzzylogician]

fuzzylogician, is the thesis a total waste for going into the industry?

That's not something I can answer, sorry. Maybe someone in your field (on TGC or elsewhere) can answer it. From a purely utilitarian point of view, you should do whichever thing is easier for you and/or will result in greater benefit. I don't know how the industry you want to go into views a thesis. I imagine it doesn't hurt but it may not help much either. So if the goal is to finish the degree and start your career as soon as possible then there is something to be said for choosing the option that gets you there faster. If there is a danger of a thesis taking longer and possibly causing you to fail the degree, that's a concern. If it's not a real concern (=motivated students who do well in the program in general also succeed in writing a thesis, and they don't tend to take excessively long to graduate), which I imagine is the case in your situation because there is no hiding diseased areas of a program, and you want to do research -- then go for it! Far be it from me to stop anyone from the joys of research, it's something I hope to continue doing for the rest of my life:)

[nehs]

That's not something I can answer, sorry. Maybe someone in your field (on TGC or elsewhere) can answer it. Oh yes, I have to get more inputs on this. From a purely utilitarian point of view, you should do whichever thing is easier for you and/or will result in greater benefit. I don't know how the industry you want to go into views a thesis. My major is related to computer science and so it is obviously the computer/technology industry. I don't think the indistry cares either way lol. I imagine it doesn't hurt but it may not help much either.true So if the goal is to finish the degree and start your career as soon as possible then there is something to be said for choosing the option that gets you there faster.YES YES this is the goal If there is a danger of a thesis taking longer and possibly causing you to fail the degree, that's a concern. If it's not a real concern (=motivated students who do well in the program in general also succeed in writing a thesis, and they don't tend to take excessively long to graduate), well, the thesis is kind of motivating me to do better in other courses because in my Dept, a student needs a GPA of 3.5 or above to apply for the thesis option and 3.5 is all A's! This factor pushes me to do better. which I imagine is the case in your situation because there is no hiding diseased areas of a program, and you want to do research -- then go for it! Far be it from me to stop anyone from the joys of research, it's something I hope to continue doing for the rest of my life:) I don't mean to say you are stopping me, I'm just trying to understand your thoughts behind what you had written

THANKS again

[nehs]

I'm going to meet my grad advisor today and will come back and report what he says. Thanks to all of you , for giving me food for thought

[nehs]

So I met with my advisor and few other professors too. Here's what I have:

We can choose the topic or work on a current topic(current with some professor) and register for the thesis course as 3-credits or 6-credits. So this gets counted toward the degree. We then start work on the thesis document . So typically, 3-credit work is one semester worth of work and then one semester to write the thesis. hopefully, we could be done in a 2 semesters.

There is no 'official' audience for our defence. it is just the advisor and the Dept chair and sometimes even this does not happen. so eventually the thesis is usually accepted.

I also looked into the comprehensive exam option and looks like its not so bad either. The questions are of the same level that are asked in the final exam of that particular area.

I have another option too: do the research for credit and then choose not to do the thesis but instead write up a short report and then sit for the exam. This is also an option and the advantage is I would not need to come up with intensive writing.