Purdue? Or don't? (haha)

[Blinz]

But seriously, what's everyone's take on Purdue? Their Chemistry PhD program is ranked pretty high (according to US News) and the school has an over all good rep, but no one seems to be applying there. Is it the location? I know, Indiana is pretty terrible and somewhere with a coastline would be much nicer...

It just seems like everyones applying to all the same schools (MIT, Harvard, Caltech, UC Berkeley, UChicago, etc...) with little mention of all the other good, even great grad schools out there.

'm new at this whole application thing. I've only ever applied to one school in the past (my undergrad) and that was over ten years ago (im a post bac). And did I mention I don't have a chem degree? Yep. i have a BFA (graduated in 2006) and since spring 2010 I've accumulated 39 hours of chem credits maintaining a 4.0. Ive also been on a research team for a year now and am a UTA. Oh and I have a job and pay my way through school. No papers. No incredible GRE score.

Needless to say, Im into discussing other graduate schools besides the usual 5.

Any thoughts?

[Pnictides]

Did you go to Purdue for undergraduate? Also Purdue gives difficult Cumulative Exams.

[process chemist]

The knock on Purdue is the location. To live in Indiana, which is one of the more conservative states in the midwest, not to mention West Lafayette. Your nearest source of enjoyment is between Chicago and Indianapolis (I would choose Chicago, so much more to do). Think about it, you will be living there for at least 4 years. Do you really want to live in a place where the only thing to do is go to a Pacer's game? You not only have to consider research, but location, of the institution.

[Blinz]

Did you go to Purdue for undergraduate? Also Purdue gives difficult Cumulative Exams.

. No, undergrad from another university and state.

[Blinz]

The knock on Purdue is the location. To live in Indiana, which is one of the more conservative states in the midwest, not to mention West Lafayette. Your nearest source of enjoyment is between Chicago and Indianapolis (I would choose Chicago, so much more to do). Think about it, you will be living there for at least 4 years. Do you really want to live in a place where the only thing to do is go to a Pacer's game? You not only have to consider research, but location, of the institution.

. But what if it's the 'best' school I get into? Guess at this point I'm scared about mylack of options.

[sareth]

As far as "lack of options" - I didn't think I was a strong candidate, so I applied to 9 programs. My undergraduate GPA was strong but not stellar, and my GREs were solid (bizarrely, I did much better on the verbal than the quantitative). I worked all through school, both as an UTA & off campus, and have three years of research experience in a field completely unrelated to what I want to do in grad school. So far I'm 5/5 in terms of acceptances (including Purdue). I'm pretty sure if you write a strong personal statement and have good LORs you'll be fine.

What area of chemistry are you looking to go into?

[Blinz]

As far as "lack of options" - I didn't think I was a strong candidate, so I applied to 9 programs. My undergraduate GPA was strong but not stellar, and my GREs were solid (bizarrely, I did much better on the verbal than the quantitative). I worked all through school, both as an UTA & off campus, and have three years of research experience in a field completely unrelated to what I want to do in grad school. So far I'm 5/5 in terms of acceptances (including Purdue). I'm pretty sure if you write a strong personal statement and have good LORs you'll be fine.

What area of chemistry are you looking to go into?

Organometallic / Organic Synthesis. Catalyst design.

My SOP is pretty awesome and my LOR's are great as well. Funny, I also did waaaay better on my verbal than quantitative. I attribute that to the fact that I havent taken a high school math class since 1997. Cant remember Geometry but I can do calculus and PChem!

Ive applied to nine schools as well. Two of which had deadlines December 15th. Even though I didn't take the GRE until December 27th, I feel like I would have heard something back from them if the news was good. I know, its NEVER good to speculate but I cant ignore the facts. You've gotten 5 acceptances, me:1.

I see a pattern...

[sareth]

I think the fact that you took the GRE after the deadline may have prevented some adcoms from reviewing your file in the first batch (some graduate schools don't forward the file to the department until it's complete) so you may hear from the next round at those schools. Besides that, some schools are just slow. UC Boulder's deadline was December 15th and I still don't know that anyone's heard from them.

[Pnictides]

Where else did you apply?

[Blinz]

Where else did you apply?

University of Illinois - Urbana

Indiana University

University of Washington

University of California - Irvine

I have a few back ups, but I am really not concerned with them after being admitted into Purdue. Getting onto at least one more school from the list above would just make my day!

-note: ideally a school outside of Indiana would be nice ,a little variety. Let me get out of the Midwest!

[Groove]

I completely agree with the nature of this thread-- Most of the posts here are about the same schools-- MIT, Harvard, Yale, CalTech--- but you don't hear much about other schools:

For Example, US News and World Report:

CIT

MIT

Harvard

Berkeley

Stanford

Illinois

North Western

Scripps

Wisconsin

Columbia

Cornell

Austin

Chicago

Chapel Hill

Yale

Princeton

UCLA

U Mich

TAMU

U Penn

Johns Hopkins

Penn State

Purdue

UCSD

Minnesota, Twin Cities

For instance, these are just "#1-#21" on US News and World Report, which I'm sure we've all seen: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/chemistry-rankings/page+2

I think so far I'm the only person to mention TAMU-- which seems to be highly ranked (which usually doesn't mean anything)

I also haven't heard much about Johns Hopkins, Penn State, or Minnesota. Are we just picking schools based on the reputation rather than how they're ranked? Also, are these rankings just bunk in general?

I thought about Purude as well-- but I'm not the biggest fan of where it's located

[Pnictides]

How do you plan on studying for the Purdue Cumulative Exams?

[nechalo]

Location is often a very important decision when choosing a grad school (and rightly so!). Some people choose schools right around where they currently live (I know of many people that are applying to Purdue; I live in Ohio and many people aim to stay in or near the midwest). Some need somewhere their significant other could also move. Some want to plant new roots (personally, I tended to apply as far away as I could without being labelled an international student...)

And since you're going to live there for several years, you need to LIKE it. I'm assuming that just about everyone would like to get away from research now and then and enjoy life - that's fine, and more than healthy. For some, they would like a warm climate to enjoy or a city with a lot of entertainment options, or a location they could pursue a hobby (surfing, hiking, skiing, fishing, whatever).

Edited January 25, 2012 by nechalo

[Eigen]

My advice would be to worry less about ranking, and more about how you felt about the department and the faculty when you visited. How you get along with your PI, whether you like the research and your coworkers- those are the things that will make the PhD manageable or not, imo.

[BoilerAlchemist]

I got my BS Chemistry at Purdue and it's the only place I am currently applying for physical chemistry.  I have been living in Lafayette/West Lafayette for about eight years now and I work for their Physics Department there already and have for the last year.  The location really isn't THAT bad, and I grew up in the somewhat more cosmopolitan Chicago suburbs.  Granted, the state as a whole is VERY politically conservative, West Lafayette is really rather liberal comparatively.  The weather kind of sucks compared to someplace on the coasts, but if you're already used to Midwest weather it's not bad at all.  Also, for a smaller city, Lafayette has quite a bit of culture and plenty of things to do.  

 

Here in Lafayette, we call the more international and liberal area around the university itself "The Bubble" because townies almost never go in there, and most of the undergraduates don't ever leave it.  Some of the advantages of Lafayette are the incredibly low cost of living in Tippecanoe County, the fact that Indy is only an hour away by car and there is a train that runs up to Chicago that has a terminal about a fifteen minute walk from campus, and the relatively low crime rate.  It is really quite a safe city to live in.  There is also no shortage of living space near campus, and the longest commute you'll probably be looking at living in town but off campus is fifteen minutes during the "rush hour".  

 

As far as the program goes, I can't seem to get a clear indication of what they really want for admission.  They don't seem to pay much attention to general GRE scores, because I've noticed people with scores all over the map getting in.  Also, the program might seem really tough, but the undergraduate science and engineering programs are tough here too so if you're used to jumping through  multiple flaming hoops in order to get the grade, you'll fit right in here.  My friends in the graduate program right now tell me that the cumes are really quite difficult, but people still manage to pass them eventually, so who knows.  

 

I had to work my way through my undergrad just to pay my bills, so I didn't have time for much undergrad research, publications, or a whole lot of extracurriculars.  I also had a pretty rough first two years in my undergrad, leaving my GPA much lower than I would like when I graduated last May.  Still, I found a professor who likes my work and wants me in their group, and hopefully anyone here who decides on Purdue I'll be seeing in the fall.  Heck, even if I don't get in, I'll still probably see you in the fall since I'll still be working in my lab in Wetherill anyways.  

 

One last thought about Purdue:  our buildings and facilities in the chemistry department are really quite old.  My lab looks like it was built sometime in the 60's or 70's, and the chemistry building itself is very old (I'm guessing like 80 years).  Most of the offices and workspaces have no windows and white painted cinderblock walls.  You will also probably be TA-ing a bunch of undergrads from outside the department since it seems like EVERYONE has to take some type of gen. chem. as an undergrad in nearly any field.  

 

If you don't need windows in your office to be happy, you can take the cold and the ice, and you're good with hanging out at a pub or a nice little mom'n'pop coffee shop when you're not working (ha ha ha), Purdue is actually a nice place to live (I mean work).  The administrative staff members in the department are lovely people and always say "hello" and ask how you are when you see them in the hallways.  There is almost always some interesting cultural thing happening around campus somewhere, and the program looks pretty good on a resume from what I hear.  The coffee in the printshop/grad student lounge is pretty good, too.  

[Quantum Buckyball]

Purdue's Chemistry program is excellent. However, Purdue is notoriously known for their "examinations" (preliminary, candidacy, comprehensive exit exams). They takes in a lot of first year students each year just so they have enough of TAs to teach basic or organic chemistry labs.

Only a small percentage of their students actually get to graduate. Two of my friends turned down Purdue's offer last year because of this.

[MadScience]

Purdue's Chemistry program is excellent. However, Purdue is notoriously known for their "examinations" (preliminary, candidacy, comprehensive exit exams). They takes in a lot of first year students each year just so they have enough of TAs to teach basic or organic chemistry labs.

Only a small percentage of their students actually get to graduate. Two of my friends turned down Purdue's offer last year because of this.

 

I just wanted to add for anyone browsing these posts in the future, I went to their visiting event this weekend and really loved it there. Everyone I spoke with about the exams said they're really not as bad as they feared and as long as you prepare it's all doable. There are no preliminary exams anymore and they have been replaced with what they call cumulative exams. They explained that they assume you know your chemistry already and that's why they accepted you so there's no need for testing you before you begin.

 

The way the cumulative exams work is you have to pass 5 of these exams in your first 2 years. There are 10 offered each year and the format is basically a few questions written by a professor in the relevant department. So if you are taking an orgo cumulative exam, an orgo prof writes the question, etc. You can take all 5 exams in one division or you can take each exam in a different division or mix and match (orgo, inorg, p chem, analytical, biochem), it's your call. And if you fail it, it's no big deal. You can take all 20 exams offered in the first 2 years, fail 15 and pass 5 and you're good. But many of the students I spoke with have done them all before the end of their first spring semester.

 

Then there's an oral exam you take at the end of your fifth semester, basically outlining your research and also an unrelated research topic. Once you do this, you're a PhD candidate. This part is something I've seen at a lot of places though, but not always with the addition of an unrelated topic which is kind of unique.

 

And finally is the thesis and defense, which is standard as far as I know.

 

I don't know, I don't think it's as scary as the rumors make it seem, because I was definitely scared before talking to everyone and I thought they had prelims still but they don't which is cool. Also, they showed us different statistics on number of students graduated per year and talked about job placement rates and also percentage of students that graduate and they're both pretty impressive. Job placement is greater than 90% upon graduation and within 1 year it's something like 97% of grads have jobs. And the percentage of students graduating is roughly 80% now, which I think is excellent. They also put out the most chem PhDs per year (Berkley is #1) and so are heavily targeted by recruiters which is why the job placement is so great.

 

We went out at night with the grads and so everyone was relaxed (and drinking lol) so they were pretty honest. Basically, the vast majority of the ones who left the program did so by choice and it was no surprise. They were just people who realized early on that they didn't like research very much. They couldn't even think of anyone who left just from being bad or failing, it was pretty much all by choice and a change of heart. I'm sure that it's probably happened, but it appears to be the exception and not the rule.

 

For anyone who's interested in Purdue, I'd say definitely go to the visiting weekend and check it out for yourself in person before making a decision. The climate is so happy and everyone seems like they're a part of this big happy family, professors included! It's cool, definitely not what I was expecting since it has a reputation for being tough.

[Quantum Buckyball]

I just wanted to add for anyone browsing these posts in the future, I went to their visiting event this weekend and really loved it there. Everyone I spoke with about the exams said they're really not as bad as they feared and as long as you prepare it's all doable. There are no preliminary exams anymore and they have been replaced with what they call cumulative exams. They explained that they assume you know your chemistry already and that's why they accepted you so there's no need for testing you before you begin.

 

The way the cumulative exams work is you have to pass 5 of these exams in your first 2 years. There are 10 offered each year and the format is basically a few questions written by a professor in the relevant department. So if you are taking an orgo cumulative exam, an orgo prof writes the question, etc. You can take all 5 exams in one division or you can take each exam in a different division or mix and match (orgo, inorg, p chem, analytical, biochem), it's your call. And if you fail it, it's no big deal. You can take all 20 exams offered in the first 2 years, fail 15 and pass 5 and you're good. But many of the students I spoke with have done them all before the end of their first spring semester.

 

Then there's an oral exam you take at the end of your fifth semester, basically outlining your research and also an unrelated research topic. Once you do this, you're a PhD candidate. This part is something I've seen at a lot of places though, but not always with the addition of an unrelated topic which is kind of unique.

 

And finally is the thesis and defense, which is standard as far as I know.

 

I don't know, I don't think it's as scary as the rumors make it seem, because I was definitely scared before talking to everyone and I thought they had prelims still but they don't which is cool. Also, they showed us different statistics on number of students graduated per year and talked about job placement rates and also percentage of students that graduate and they're both pretty impressive. Job placement is greater than 90% upon graduation and within 1 year it's something like 97% of grads have jobs. And the percentage of students graduating is roughly 80% now, which I think is excellent. They also put out the most chem PhDs per year (Berkley is #1) and so are heavily targeted by recruiters which is why the job placement is so great.

 

We went out at night with the grads and so everyone was relaxed (and drinking lol) so they were pretty honest. Basically, the vast majority of the ones who left the program did so by choice and it was no surprise. They were just people who realized early on that they didn't like research very much. They couldn't even think of anyone who left just from being bad or failing, it was pretty much all by choice and a change of heart. I'm sure that it's probably happened, but it appears to be the exception and not the rule.

 

For anyone who's interested in Purdue, I'd say definitely go to the visiting weekend and check it out for yourself in person before making a decision. The climate is so happy and everyone seems like they're a part of this big happy family, professors included! It's cool, definitely not what I was expecting since it has a reputation for being tough.

1. Did you ask them about the attrition rate for PhD students vs. MS students? I would assume that the rate for PhD students is a lot lower.

2. It's not easy to pass 5 cumulative exams during your first 2 years, I would think that this is how Purdue filter out the weak links.

3. Let's be real, West Lafayette's weather and location ain't good.

[MadScience]

1. Did you ask them about the attrition rate for PhD students vs. MS students? I would assume that the rate for PhD students is a lot lower.

2. It's not easy to pass 5 cumulative exams during your first 2 years, I would think that this is how Purdue filter out the weak links.

3. Let's be real, West Lafayette's weather and location ain't good.

Hey there, to answer your questions:

 

1. Yep, the numbers provided were specifically for PhD students. I am not sure about MS but they are a part of the 20%.

2. I don't know, the general consensus was that the cumulatives were not that bad. And I asked everyone - Years 1-5, literally everyone lol. I mean, it is grad school and it is meant to test your knowledge, but if a lot of the people there including the first years said they had no issues with them I'd treat them just like any other test. I like testing though so maybe that's just me lol. I was also told they grant extensions in the cases where someone needs more than 2 years to pass them so it's not like they kick you out if you don't finish them by the deadline, which is cool. The impression that I got from the faculty and students was that they will do what they can to get you to succeed, but regardless some people make the decision to leave if they have a change of heart.

3. Yeah, the weather sucks. It is cold and dreary for sure, and as someone who has lived their entire life in a sunny warm climate it'll definitely be a big change. It was actually one of the reasons why I was questioning the school since I hate being cold lol. It really just depends on what's most important in your decision process and what factors will make you the most happy with your choice. I figure I'll be spending most of my time in lab so it's not too bad, although if I could magically change its location to California weather I would

 

Hope this info helps. All I know is I arrived a little skeptical and left really feeling at ease. Yeah, Purdue is a tough school but I think the payoff is worth it and I also think it is hyped up to be really scary when I didn't find it scary at all. If anyone has any questions I'd be happy to answer them here or via PM.