Stanford vs. Berkeley: help!

[migrationdude]

Okay, so in the past few days I've been going crazy trying to decide which school to pick. Right now Stanford and Berkeley are top of my list, and while I'm waiting for other decisions to come in, I think these two schools will definitely be among the "finalists" in my choices.

So, I was wondering if anyone cares to weigh in on the subject. To provide some background, check out the following article (first two pages in the pdf):

http://www.stanford.edu/dept/soc/doctoral/documents/soapdispenserspring2004.pdf

What do you think, does the piece do justice to the two departments?

Also, how do the two schools compare to each other in terms of atmosphere, bureaucracy, living costs, facilities etc.?

[coqui21]

I've found that visits are extremely helpful. When I visited my current MA program, I was almost positive that I was going to attend a different university. However, the feel of the department, fellow students, and faculty, ended up winning me over. Granted, I am now in the process of applying elsewhere for my PhD, but the best way to get a feel for whether a place is good for you is to experience it yourself. Get in touch with current grad students. Annoy the hell out of them with questions. If they were smart, they were likely doing the same thing only a few years prior, so they should understand.

Good luck with your decision.

[ewurgler]

That article is from a stanford publication and is a bit biased. But even in that, what they describe about each school makes me lean heavily toward berkeley personally--I thrive on intense debate and being forced to defend your work and why it is important.

BUt, I will say this again--the areas and "feel" of even just the campus are like night and day. VISIT!!!!! You will definitely be drawn toward one or the other.

Also--which do you prefer in general: sanitized, upscale, prestigious or bohemian, eclectic, and non traditional.

[jortylander]

You really need to look at two things: (1) job placement in your area of interest; (2) university prestige.

The first factor, needless to say, depends on your interests and the strength of each department in those areas. If you're interested in migration, then Berkeley is probably the better choice. Stanford is excellent in social psychology/sociology, political sociology, and economic sociology. Migration is of course related to econ. sociology. But this ultimately depends on your research agenda.

As for prestige, it's important. I'd say they're close to equal, but Stanford comes out on top in this regard. I also bet there is better funding at Stanford.

That said (and given my particular interests), I'd go for Stanford.

Of course, Princeton beats both!

[jortylander]

As for the guy who said visits are helpful; I strongly disagree. Numbers are helpful. That's all you should consider. That's all I'm considering. That's assuming you can afford to move anywhere and don't have geographic concerns.

If you got into Stanford and Berkeley, there's a good chance you're on the shortlist at Harvard. Are you? They conducted interviews a week or so ago, and are taking about 8 pure soc PhD students. They'll be announcing decisions very soon!

Anyone know when we'll hear from Princeton?

[migrationdude]

Jortylander,

Yes, I am on the shortlist at Harvard, and if I got in everywhere, I would be deciding between Berkeley, Stanford, Harvard and Princeton. I'm happy enough to have the first two terms of this choice available right now, and don't want to think about Princeton and Harvard. The complexity of the decision will only increase if I got in I suppose, but right now I am trying to compare the two big Bay Area schools. I do have some geographic concerns as well, and that's because I love the Bay Area, and that would be literally the best place in the world for me to live.

[jortylander]

That's great then! Well if I was you I wouldn't go through the headache of thinking about Stanford or Berkeley. Just wait till you hear from all of them. But assuming your research interests fit equally well at Stanford and Berkeley, I'd say Stanford hands down. Good luck!

[misterpat]

What a great problem to have.

[synthla]

Only 2 months and 5 days left to decide... clock is ticking...

[migrationdude]

Okay, okay, I know I'm over-obsessing right now. I do want to make a quick decision though because I need to start thinking about the summer as well, and a host of other, grad-school related things.

[synthla]

Okay, okay, I know I'm over-obsessing right now. I do want to make a quick decision though because I need to start thinking about the summer as well, and a host of other, grad-school related things.

:wink: I get it; I have to keep reminding myself that I have at least a few weeks to make these decisions (although I guess right now that would be between going to grad school and not going, as opposed to deciding between schools). Luckily, summer isn't much of a concern, being that I'm out in the real world right now; I'll just keep working until the last minute. Anyway, wish I had something more valuable to add, but I'm just crashing this sociology thread. Good luck though, it really is a pleasant problem to have.

[jonathan]

To paraphrase what my professors seem to think (many opinions jumbled together, and I have not double-checked this for accuracy ...):

Stanford will take care of all its students. They focus on small research groups. Output is well-researched and well-written, but not necessarily interesting.

Berkeley does not have as much money. Some of my advisors are concerned about its recent track record as to placements. Everyone seems to agree it is a very interesting and eclectic place (academically as well as living).

Either school on your C.V. will pretty much guarantee it read.

On another note... similar problem, different combination of schools. I am looking forward to visiting, though. Five years of my life... I plan on visiting before making a decision. Also, it's a tough call as to where I'll best reinforce my abilities. Oh, and of course Berkeley and UCLA had to pick overlapping visiting weekends...

[acoustic_mayhem]

If you are interested in migration then another important consideration would be a population center- UNC has a great one so you might not want to write them off yet-- if you have any questions about UNC let me know~

[Anonposter84]

If you are really interested in immigration I would hold off and wait for pton. if you get in i would go there, no question.

[migrationdude]

Yeah, Princeton used to be my first choice hands-off. The thing is that a project I've been working on for a while also stoked my interest in social psychology and social networks, so this kind of complicates the situation, because Princeton otherwise would be perfect.

Princeton is great except for the location, and I must ask how much it matters to my own sanity; I've spent the past four years working like crazy, and now I want to have a life besides school as well. I'm sick of being isolated out in the sticks, even though this situation has had its advantages.

As about UNC, so far they have offered very little support; like everyone else I suppose, I'm waiting to hear about fellowship funding from them as well, but at this point I think the chances aren't so great for good support over there.

Again, I don't want to appear shallow or anything, but I have met my share of depressive grad students, unhappy with the environment and/or the conditions they ended up living in. I want to avoid that, and that's why I'm talking so much about where a school is located and how much support it can offer. Pretty much all of the schools I applied to were good research fits -- my interests are still in flux -- and now it comes down to finding the right balance between prestige, fit and quality of life.

[nyghtfalls]

wanted to comment on placement... rather, it's more of a question! :-) doesn't your future placement depend on how incredibly sexy your own research is, rather than the school you attend? obviously, the PhD program you choose to attend can mediate placement in many ways (i.e. if you are a hard core demographer, places like UMich, UPenn, UT Austin and Berkeley will definitely provide you with adequate resources), however, I was under the impression that your job placement depended on you and your research?

in any case, migrationdude, i would definitely go with the "feel" of the school. some people say funding, and i agree, but really a five year fellowship is a five year fellowship and if you happen to have a couple of these going on for you, then i would say "big ups!", and move onto the next criterion. this is just my opinion, but once you get to the top 10 or 20 PhD programs, I feel the smaller details come into play (i.e. being able to read articles on a beach as opposed to a coffee shop in the dead of winter). the biggest factor for me is the campus feel and the PEOPLE (faculty included). personally, i don't like being in cohort or at a school with people who might always feel the need to qualify themselves. i also enjoy a "chill" atmosphere with serious but very human people ... that would be how i decided on a school, but that's me. but beware my perspective: i often live the dreams of fools. :-)

[ewurgler]

When you are talking about Berkeley and Stanford, prestige is no longer any sort of issue. Yes, stanford is better known overall, but in the field, berkeley has a better rep in terms of cutting edge, interesting stuff.

And, like someone else mentioned, look at placement and publications. Are faculty publishing with graduate students? If they are, that is a sign of a very supportive program. Also, if your interests are shifting, make sure you go somewhere that has experts in multiple fields, not super focused.

One thing I look at as well is how strong the rest of the social sciences and humanities are. If you have interests in history, philosophy, religion, are there people in other departments you could use as a resource, outside advisor or outside committee member?

This said, BERKELEY!!!! But I am very, very biased toward public universities, UCs and the type of scholarship that berkeley has been producing for years.

[Anonposter84]

with salganik and baldassari, id actually say princeton is one of the stronger networks programs.