J-1 vs. F-1 Visa + Spouse

[Blurry]

I've bene doing some digging and just found out that one coudl do a PhD in the United States on a J-1 rather than an F-1 Visa. The advantages of the J-1 is that your spouse (if you have one of course) can apply for a work permit and a social security number! This seems absolutely fantastic! I know that there may be restrictions on the J-1 (like you have to return to your home country for two years if you're on some special skill list); i don't know the details on this.

Does anyone know anything about J-1? Also, my finacee and I are not married yet (we've been living together for three years though), how soon should we get married? Does this affect the visa application?

Thanks

[TakeruK]

I'm in a similar situation -- my wife and I were worried that she wouldn't be able to work in the US until we found out about the J1 visa a few months ago. This is what I know from talking to International Student Offices and other F-1 and J-1 students.

1. One school told me that they can't actually tell me what kind of visa I'd get because each case is different and they don't get the details until I accept the school's offer. However, they said that the basic requirement is that the majority of the funds used to support the J-1 (me) and the J-2 (spouse) should NOT come from personal or family funds. They also said that they are authorized to issue the DS-2019 which I use to apply to US Immigration for a J-1 visa. So, it's up to US Immigration, not the school, what visa we get.

2. It's not clear ANYWHERE how much funding can come out of personal funds. Is 50% fellowship supported enough? Or do we need, say 75% level. What about tuition waivers, do they count as non-personal fund support? And does income from TA/RAships count as University support, or personal income?

3. I'm also Canadian so I applied to NSERC...would a PGS D be enough for J-1 status? By the way, I also applied to the Fulbright Traditional Student Award (15,000 USD for 9 months, non renewable), and part of that award is a J-1 visa. I checked with the Fulbright people, although the grant is only for 9 months, I will be able to keep J-1 status for the whole degree. NSERC PGS D is more funding than Fulbright, so maybe it will be enough too! (Assuming I even get either award)

4. I know several people who are on F-1 visas because they were unable to get a J-1 visa. Their spouses (F-2) are thus not able to work. I know some schools have "International Spouses Clubs" to support these spouses. I am not sure why these F-1 visa holders did not end up getting J-1 visas though.

So after that, it seemed pretty dismal! But a prof at my school had a student go through the same process a few years ago and he got a J-1 visa! He gave me more details:

5. University support due to TA and RA ships are indeed enough for J-1 status (he was funded by a TAship and a tuition waiver). Fellowships are even better! J-1 and J-2 visa must be covered under health insurance. Universities will generally assume you want a F-1 visa so he says to be sure to tell them you want a J-1 visa right away so there is no lost time.

6. He also says that if you do your first post doc in the US and it starts within 30 days of the end of your J-1 visa, you are eligible for an additional 3 year extension on J-1 status for post doc training. He recently graduated and is currently doing this now.

7. J-2 work isn't as simple though. This is what he wrote to me: "You'll need to write a letter explaining your situation and setting out your budget. The idea is that the J-2 is not allowed to support the J-1 financially, *at all*. All of your spouse's income is supposed to go to "cultural and recreational activities"." His wife got work authorization in 2009, he says.

Based on my experience asking people in departments that have accepted me:

8. Most people don't really know the visa process! Some will tell you that a J-1 visa is for "visitors or exchange students" only, because that's the name of the J-1 visa. But this is not true! Usually post-docs get J-1s and students get F-1s so that might be another source of confusion. But I still encourage you to ask the people at schools that accepted you, mostly to let them know that this is a concern for you. They are all usually glad to help and will set you up to talk to other students in the department who have done the same, or a staff member responsible for these matters, or get you in touch with someone from the University who knows what to do!

And here's a link to an official page: http://j1visa.state....ersity-student/ (but has lots of vague information!)

9. When I try to find the skills list that require home residency, all I found was this: http://travel.state....types_4514.html (2009). In this list, Canada is not listed, which means we don't have to go back. I don't know if there is an update since 2009 though. I didn't look too much further into it because I plan to go back anyways.

Finally, about whether or not being married is required:

10. I found this definition:

Spouse:Legally married husband or wife. A co-habiting partner does not qualify as a spouse for immigration purposes. A common-law husband or wife may or may not qualify as a spouse for immigration purposes, depending on the laws of the country where the relationship occurs.

from http://travel.state....ssary_1363.html . It's vague, yet again. In Canada, common-law couples get all the same benefits as married couples so it is probably okay, but you should really check this! Again, I didn't look into this too much further since it didn't apply to me.

I hope all this was helpful, it's basically the results of the last 3-4 months of worried research! Some days, it felt like everything was going to work out and others it felt hopeless. But I am now optimistic about it all.

Good luck!!

Edited February 23, 2012 by TakeruK

[Ludwig von Dracula]

I went through this last year. I managed to get a J-2 for my wife just by asking for it (which I did pretty soon after receiving the offer). She got her work permit without any trouble after writing the letter of application, showing that her income would not be required for our living expenses, and the permit arrived faster than expected (they estimate 3 months). Still, you have to pay quite a bit to apply ($380!).

In my understanding, you need to show that with the school's financial package and your own savings you will have enough money to cover the entire cost of the program. So I'm not sure if the caveat about it not being "personal" funds applies in every situation. I showed my TA offer (which I guess they projected over five years, although technically it was only for the first year with renewal conditional on performance), my savings/chequing balance, as well as a bank statement from my grandmother and her signature stating that she would support us if need be, although I have no intention of ever actually asking her for money. It worked out OK for us.

I understood that Canadians ARE subject to the home return requirement, though I could be wrong on this. I know it varies by discipline as well.

From what I've heard in the past, a spousal visa only works if you're actually married, though (I'm not sure where they draw the line between cohabiting and common-law in the quote above). Quick ceremony with the justice of the peace, and then a more formal celebration at some point in the future, perhaps?

[TakeruK]

Yay, I feel better about this every time I hear a Canadian has gone through it successfully! And I'm glad to hear that your wife's work permit was not difficult to get

I should clarify that the information I got was that a "significant" portion of the money to cover the program must not be personal funds. But I haven't got a concrete upper limit on how much personal funds is allowed to be used? Maybe it's okay as long as it's less than 50%?

[Blurry]

Thanks for all the input everyone!

I went through this last year. I managed to get a J-2 for my wife just by asking for it (which I did pretty soon after receiving the offer). She got her work permit without any trouble after writing the letter of application, showing that her income would not be required for our living expenses, and the permit arrived faster than expected (they estimate 3 months). Still, you have to pay quite a bit to apply ($380!).

In my understanding, you need to show that with the school's financial package and your own savings you will have enough money to cover the entire cost of the program. So I'm not sure if the caveat about it not being "personal" funds applies in every situation. I showed my TA offer (which I guess they projected over five years, although technically it was only for the first year with renewal conditional on performance), my savings/chequing balance, as well as a bank statement from my grandmother and her signature stating that she would support us if need be, although I have no intention of ever actually asking her for money. It worked out OK for us.

I understood that Canadians ARE subject to the home return requirement, though I could be wrong on this. I know it varies by discipline as well.

From what I've heard in the past, a spousal visa only works if you're actually married, though (I'm not sure where they draw the line between cohabiting and common-law in the quote above). Quick ceremony with the justice of the peace, and then a more formal celebration at some point in the future, perhaps?

We plan to marry some time in April; I was just wondering whether we had to married for a certain amount of time before applying for the VISA. We have been living together for three years.

[Blurry]

I just spoke with the courthouse and I can only get a date 60 days after my initial deposit (which hopefully will be tomorrow) so I will be marrying some time in early May. Is this too late? When do people usually apply for their J1 or F1 visa?

[Ludwig von Dracula]

I didn't get mine until May last year. Make sure you contact your school as soon as possible and tell them the situation--hopefully they'll understand and be able to help you out.

[Blurry]

I didn't get mine until May last year. Make sure you contact your school as soon as possible and tell them the situation--hopefully they'll understand and be able to help you out.

The issue is that I have not made my decision yet. Although I will be going to the United States, I will probably not have a clear idea of where I'm going until early April.

[TakeruK]

The International Office at one of the schools told me that you cannot start the visa application process until 4 months before your program starts. So if it's a September program start, you won't be able to start until May anyways. So I think an early May marriage is OK.

What province are you in? In BC, once you get the marriage license, you can get married the next day (and the license is only valid for 90 days)!

[Blurry]

The International Office at one of the schools told me that you cannot start the visa application process until 4 months before your program starts. So if it's a September program start, you won't be able to start until May anyways. So I think an early May marriage is OK.

What province are you in? In BC, once you get the marriage license, you can get married the next day (and the license is only valid for 90 days)!

I'm in Quebec. I went to the Palais de Justice (Montreal courthouse) yesterday. They have to post a notice for 20 days and you have to wait 60 days to get a date. I asked for early May. Hopefully I'll be alright then

Does anyone know when it would be TOO LATE to apply for the VISA?

[TakeruK]

I'm in Quebec. I went to the Palais de Justice (Montreal courthouse) yesterday. They have to post a notice for 20 days and you have to wait 60 days to get a date. I asked for early May. Hopefully I'll be alright then

Does anyone know when it would be TOO LATE to apply for the VISA?

Cool! I guess Quebec works in a similar way as the French system then

US Immigration has a "estimated visa time calculator" here: http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/wait/wait_4638.html. When I put in Montreal, it says 2 days is the average wait time for an interview and 4 days for them to process it. However, it also says for a small number of applications, extra work may mean it takes up to 60 days! AND, as has happened to someone I know, you aren't allowed to inquire about the status of your application until 90 days have passed without hearing anything. Plus there is time required for the visa/passport to physically get back to you, I guess.

Since we will have to attend the international student orientation at our future school, it is probably in our best interest to get the process started no later than 2 months before this orientation date. As Canadians though, we are allowed to simply visit the US without a visa, so maybe if we are having visa issues, we might still be able to "visit" the US until our visa is resolved and then exit the US and re-enter on our F1/J1 visas. Maybe they won't like this though.....but this is my backup plan if I run into troubles. Does anyone with experience know better?

[Blurry]

Hi everyone,

I am starting to freak out a little bit and was wondering if anyone could help me.

OSU is my first choice and I really want to go there. However, their estimated expense documents show that I would need to prove 31 244$ in income per year (for myself (20000$) and spouse (additional 11 000$)). Now this just seems patently ABSURD. I am unuaware of any department that could provide this type of financial support (even without a spouse) for 5 years. I live on less than 15000$ a year with my spouse now in Montreal and Columbus is EVEN CHEAPER.

Has anyone experienced anythign like this? I called them and they verified those numbers and they say they are accurate. WTF!?

[psych21]

Blurry, I'm sorry, those are the real numbers. It's what they estimate as cost of living. In my opinion they are always higher than what they should be. Ask your dept about the possibility of writing a letter showing you will be able to cover those expenses.

It's my understanding that a J1 visa (visiting scholar or exchange student--they count PhDs as "visiting scholars") requires you to show proof of funds from a SPONSOR (hence the reason for not using family funds as main source of support) for the ENTIRE DURATION of your program, and that a F1 visa (student) requires you to show ANY proof of funds for the FIRST year. That's why I opted for F1. However, the F2 visa is extremely tough, so if you can shoot for J1 and don't mind the "two-year back home" requirement (which has the possibility of a waiver, but not everyone gets it) then absolutely go for J1.

[TakeruK]

Hi Blurry,

The numbers that University of Arizona asked me to show were about the same too, and that was for a F-1 visa (default email that went to all prospectives). However, remember that this INCLUDES the funding that the University is offering you, and sometimes this number INCLUDES the tuition (which may be waived for you too). So, first check if the 20,000 for yourself includes tuition or not. If it does, and your tuition is waived, make sure you include the tuition waiver as part of your income.

Secondly, the J-1 visa eligibility is a "significant" (or other vague word) portion of your living expenses must be covered by non-personal or non-family funds. Some schools interpret this as "at least 50%" of estimated expenses must come from something other than your bank account. So, you basically just have to show that your stipend (+ tuition waiver if applicable) is equal to at least half of the number they are quoting. This might not always be possible, but you could make up the other half if you can get a statement from your bank showing that you have the money for the difference, or if you could get a parent to lend you some money to put into your bank account for a month to have it appear on your bank statement. Even more extreme, some people have taken out a loan elsewhere (or get a friend or family member to do it) in order to have the money show up on the bank statement. I can't personally recommend any of these routes, but I know immigrants such as my parents may have done things like this in the past in order to sponsor their spouses or family members to immigrate to Canada.

However, maybe OSU has a different interpretation of the above requirement -- I would ask them and check! The University of Arizona (not known for their friendly immigration laws) told me that they will NOT sponsor me for a J-1 despite the department offering a funding package that was $10K higher than the quoted "estimated living expenses". I think I could have fought them and gotten the DS-2019 since pretty much every other school would have sponsored me if they were offering a TA/RA stipend (or better, a fellowship), but I ended up accepting a different offer anyways. Ironically, compared to cost of living, the Caltech stipend is MUCH lower than Arizona's, but the International Student Program there confirmed that I will 100% receive the DS-2019 and they will sponsor me for a J-1 when it's time to do the paperwork.

[titration]

Hi everyone,

I am Canadian and was in the US on J-1 status in 2009 and F-1 status since 2011, so hopefully I can help.

US Immigration has a "estimated visa time calculator" here: http://travel.state..../wait_4638.html. When I put in Montreal, it says 2 days is the average wait time for an interview and 4 days for them to process it. However, it also says for a small number of applications, extra work may mean it takes up to 60 days! AND, as has happened to someone I know, you aren't allowed to inquire about the status of your application until 90 days have passed without hearing anything. Plus there is time required for the visa/passport to physically get back to you, I guess.

First, J-1 and F-1 students who are Canadian citizens should not have to do the interview at the consulate before entering the US. (I think the interview is required of citizens of every country *except* Canada... Canadians don't actually get a physical visa when they have J-1 or F-1 status.) You may realize this already but it took me a long time to verify this on the DHS website! However, I am not sure whether a significant other would require an interview.

Also, you should not need to mail your Canadian passport in anywhere to get J-1 / F-1 status.

The general steps *for Canadian citizens* applying for J-1/F-1 status are as follows:

1) university sends you forms to fill out describing your finances, when you intend to enter the US, etc.

2) university applies for the DS-2019 (for F-1 students) or I-20 form (for J-1 students) on your behalf

3) university receives the immigration form, signs it and mails to you

4) you pay SEVIS fee online (this covers the cost of processing your application). Print off the receipt.*

5) you are now free to enter the US (within a date range specified on your paperwork). Bring the DS-2019 or I-20 and SEVIS fee receipt with you. When you get to customs/passport control, fill out an I-94 form (record of arrival/departure). My school also strongly recommends bringing paperwork from the university describing their financial support for me, just in case the passport officer wants to see it.

6) passport control officer checks your paperwork, staples the I-94 into your passport and stamps your passport with J-1 or F-1 status. You may be subjected to other excitement like scans of all your fingertips!

*You need to have proof of payment of the SEVIS fee, but a printout of the proof of payment page is completely fine. They also mail you a more official looking copy. I paid my SEVIS fee the day before Canada Post went on strike, so being able to use the printout was a big relief!

As for the timing (related to Blurry's question):

In 2009, it took less than 2.5 months between the university applying for my F-1 status and me entering the US. I'm not sure of the date I received my DS-2019.

In 2011, it took 6 weeks or less between the university applying for my J-1 status, and receiving the I-20.

Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any other questions.

Congrats on the wedding, Blurry!

Edited March 28, 2012 by titration

[TakeruK]

Thanks titration! I didn't know that I would not need to do the interview. Like you said, I couldn't find the info anywhere so I prepared for the worst case possible! Your step by step description is very helpful. I just confirmed my acceptance so I'm not even at step 1 yet! I'm also glad that I won't have to mail my passport anywhere (a friend of mine from another country has to do this whenever he wants to enter the US, but I am definitely glad that I'm Canadian! Hopefully it's not much more complicated for a spouse.

Did you choose to go from J-1 to F-1 and/or changed programs? Or did the J-1 "expire" (I thought they were valid longer than just 2 years?)

[titration]

Did you choose to go from J-1 to F-1 and/or changed programs? Or did the J-1 "expire" (I thought they were valid longer than just 2 years?)

I did a summer research program in the US in 2009 and was on J-1 status (exchange student, non-degree). Then I came back to Canada and completed my BSc. I started grad school in 2011 and got F-1 status since I wasn't bringing anyone with me.

Also, it was less than 2 years between when I finished my J-1 and when I started the F-1. There was no mention of a 2-year residency requirement in Canada after the J-1, for my personal situation.

[TakeruK]

Ah, thanks for clarifying! I think the two year requirement is before you can get a "immigrant visa", such as a H-1B, L, or applying for US Permanent Residency. That is, they only check to make sure you've spent a total of 2 years in Canada if you try to apply to an immigrant visa. J-1s and F-1s don't fall under this category, as far as I know! Generally, international students choose F-1 over J-1 if they aren't bringing anyone with them, and even some married couples choose F-1 if they want to stay in the US indefinitely (maybe career prospects in their home country aren't so good for example).