South Carolina: English PhD

[Trevor C. Meyer]

Hey there,

Now, I know there are three people here who also got into SC, in the same program as I have. Who are you? I'm Trevor, nice to meet you.

[123student]

I got into Comparative Lit. and intend to study Milton alongside Dante, classics, and religious studies. What are your interests? I'm Edgar, nice to meet you, too.

[Trevor C. Meyer]

I was just talking about the Fathers of Hell this last week in the comp. class that I teach. I'm in Rhetoric in the English department, right now I'm working on rhetoric and play theory, classical rhet, and critical theory. Derrida, Foucault, Nietzsche, Aristotle, that kind of stuff. How's the process going for you, South Carolina and where else did you apply?

[123student]

Still waiting on 5, all Comp Lit: UT Austin, Rutger's, U Georgia, U Mass-Amherst, & UNC-Chapel. Rejected UIUC; accepted SC.

Do you know anything about grad student life at SC? I read this and its follow-up article in the Chronicle of Higher Ed. from 4 years ago, and seriously hope things have changed for grad assistants there. I'll be visiting campus late March for their Comp Lit conference to get a feel for things. Many of the faculty fit my interests quite well, so I hope GA life is tolerable.

Classical rhetoric and crit. theory are areas I expect to spend to good time with: CT in general as a comparatist, and CR for a Dante-Milton project that will be the backbone of my studies. Which schools did you apply to, and what results have you had?

[123student]

Yes, Comp. Lit.'s annual conference is March 22-24 this year. They seem to be doing the grad recruitment over the same weekend, along with the Rhetoric dept. I'm lucky enough that they're paying my airfare for the visit, though the dates of my flight aren't finalized yet. I'd like to see the campus and Columbia for at least a day to decide in what part of town I might want to live, but that's in the air for now.

Like English, Comp. Lit. is also active in publication, which is a key factor in career prospects, as I understand. They're hosting the ACLA (American Comp. Lit. Assoc.) through June 2016, which I hope could tie me into the field for networking and professionalization. Are you doing your doctorate at SC, or only an MA?

[Smokydog]

Hey! My name is Ernesto and I think I might be going to USC Columbia as well. I still have to sort out some financial details (US Government tends to tax the international students' stipend with a 14% rate), but I hope to be able to solve it. I would like to work with Aristotle's Poetics and its possibile application to literature and film. Good to meet you!

[Trevor C. Meyer]

PhD here, finishing up my MA this semester. I haven't gotten my package yet, but they indicated that they would help iwth expenses as well.

Welcome to the conversation Ernesto! Poetics is a broad deal; especially since the Modernist, and Post-Modern, if not much earlier, dissolution of the Unities. Maybe the cathatric nature of endings that we have to maintain in popular film would be interesting to address.

[Smokydog]

Your are right! It may be a broad deal and I would like to make it a more detailed project while being there. Right now I am very interested in Aristotle's statement that all art manifestations are mimesis praxeos (imitation of actions). As it seems, sometimes art works can be more an imitation of ideas (dianoia) than an imitation of actions. I consider that this particular distinction allows a study of the presence of ideology in Literature/Film. My approach is more of a classical sort. I would like to investigate the difference between Poetics (as Aristotle understood it) and Rethorics in fiction.

[Smokydog]

Where I said rethorics I meant rhetorics. Sorry! I am still not used to that "h". In Spanish the word is "Retórica".

[123student]

I think people will forgive that misspelling. "Retorica" is the Italian, too. As I learn Italian, I have a hard time keeping my Spanish out of it. My Spanish on its own needs work, so you can imagine the muddle when I try speaking Italian.

Ernesto, Are you attending SC's Comp. Lit. this fall? I must have misunderstood your questions in the "SC Comp. Lit." thread. Sorry about that. Did you find out about the ACLA, and if it might be useful to your studies?

Rhetoric/Retórica/Retorica--Aristotle, Cicero, and others--will be a big part of my own studies on Dante and Milton. In both these poets' major epics, the consequences of effective speech reach the spiritual level.

Ernesto, You're right that art works seem more to imitate ideas than actions: each action in a literary artwork stems from the author's imagination, and relies entirely on the reader's or audience's imagination to give flesh to that imagined action. Action embodies the idea, but idea is source, it seems to me.

Trevor, Where are you finishing your MA?

[Smokydog]

@EGS Scholar, I have been accepted to SC's Com Lit but I am waiting to know about the funding. I am also waiting to hear from 6 other universities (been rejected from 7 already). There is still some time to make my decision to go there definite but it is certainly an option. Since I cannot rely on only this opportunity I am looking for other options, such as a funded stand-alone MA (just in case). Perhaps we will meet! Don't worry about the SC Comp. Lit thread. It did help me. I did get more information about the ACLA. Thank you for your help!

[eliz85]

I was beginning to wonder where all the SC English people were, too. Glad I found this. I'm not in comp. lit (just plain old English) but yay! for us.

[Trevor C. Meyer]

I'm finishing my MA at the University of Northern Colorado. Hello Eliz! I'm an English, Rhet/Comp guy here. You must be one of the people who posted results, and I'm glad I found some English major folks!

Edgar, imitation is itself the root of all production of text or culture, as I argue in my upcoming thesis, *smug face.* What about you Eliz, what is your focus?

[123student]

Trevor, It's true that our modern literary minds perceive imitation as the root of much in our culture, but not all literary eras have. Some Medieval authors treated literature as virtually real, with the potential for very real societal effects (or so some hoped; I handled this topic in my undergrad thesis on Dante). Another example would be the Bible, which any believer would argue is not imitation at all but the divinely-inspired word of God, and which for some people has unshakable authority to shape lives. (I approach the Bible as a literary document.) Recent studies on empathy and mirror neurons suggest that reading has effects as real as living experience, albeit tamer. These are some things I had in mind in my previous post to Ernesto in this thread.

[Smokydog]

Well, so it seem we will have much to discuss. Nice.

[Trevor C. Meyer]

Inspiration is itself a model of imitation, or a particularly complicated singular rhythym of imitation, in which the composer, or prophet in this case, imitates the model of responsiveness itself. I've done a little work in rhetorics of the shaman, but a prophetic writer, while operating in a different religio-cultural context, could be argued to operate in composition, oral or written, in a similar fashion. Don't quote, that's a chapter yet to be written.

The reality of composed document in itself has no bearing on its being an imitation and/or creation, invention, or given, as both modes of textual production operate with simultaneity, whether linguistically, thematically, or consciously.

I'm doing a lot of ground work in imitation in classical sense, specificially in the areas of rhetroical theory and pedagogy, of which they concieved of imitation as a crucial part. The concept of imitation also is the root in representation of moral models to follow. If folks wish to be Christ-like, it is a set of lives and actions in imitation of that particular figure.

I completely agree that historicization is crucial in any theoretical invesitgation of text or textual production, but I think that as long as that is acknowledged, as well as the influences of predecessors, like Mediveal monastic scholar's influenced by neo-Platonic scholars through figures like Aquinas, and developments beginning that will be manifest more overtly later, the application of theory to texts written before theory was codified can be very productive.

[Trevor C. Meyer]

Hurray scholarly discussion!

[123student]

Trevor, That's awesome: a major theme of my projected MA thesis or dissertation will be poetry as prophecy in the epics of Dante and Milton.

The thing about prophets proper is that their cultures see them as possessing divine authority; so from their cultures' perspectives, the prophets aren't imitating at all, but creating the material for others to imitate and shape society around. Our modern minds view the phenomenon differently in that we are more conscious of the phenomenon of imitation, but the alleged prophets' cultures granted their prophets tremendous authority. Imitation remains a major thread in much literature and art--religious and secular--but with different intensities in each. We still see movie and "reality" stars setting fashion and behavioral trends in our society much as religious literature set models for imitation in earlier societies. You might agree with these last two sentences.

I look forward to talking all this out if we get the chance. Good luck as you finish your thesis.

[Trevor C. Meyer]

You as well! I think back to the Ion and the "magnetic" metaphor employed there to explain the work of poets. I think too that we suffer, with the advent of Romanticism and expressivism, from a conception of imitation as pure Gradgrindian rote, which is really a Victorian appropriation of rhetorical techniques.

Dante, and especially Milton, with his whole blind-dictionary composition, as prophets would be super cool.

[Smokydog]

Everything is always leading back to the Greek. Aristotle would say that one of the first ways people start learning is through imitation.

Edited March 1, 2012 by eoyarbidem

[123student]

Right, and also stymie learning by perpetuating unconscious patterns: social, behavioral, etc. Interestingly (for my line of work, at least), the Greeks also give us the two most important cultural and literary traditions we possess: (1) the Christian New Testament--the earliest Christian writings come from Greek churches decades and centuries after Jesus lived; google a few Bart Ehrman lectures or read Forged--and (2) the polytheistic "pagan" religion that so enriched classical literature.

Plato doesn't think too highly of poets to say the least, in the Ion or elsewhere. Ironically, the Greek tradition from Homer places literary poets as high as prophets: in invoking the Muses, the poet or "singer" speaks with divine authority on his subject. Their conception of divine means more "superpowerful" or "superhuman" than it means "holy"--an important distinction to make when studying literary composition. The "holy" prophet in the Western tradition comes first from Jewish religious literature (primarily the Old Testament), then from Christian religious lit (the NT).

[Smokydog]

Well, inspiration means many different things for the Greek and the Judeo-Christian tradition. Democritus, for example, saw it as an arousing of atoms and material things such as bodily fluids. For Plato and Aristotle inspiration was more being out of oneself (ekstatikós) or possesed (enthousiasmós). It depends which Greek thinker you choose. Though I agree that "Holy" is something different in the judeo-christian tradition. Nevertheless, holy things are many times unspeakable and mostly untouchable for the jew tradition (for fear of blasphemy) while they are very close to christians (due to the Father-son relationship they have with God). It is very interesting to see how a Christian may be talking about Providence all the time while the Jew tradition is more careful when talking about God's actions for fear of being wrong in addressing them. I love this subject!

[Trevor C. Meyer]

I love arousing atoms.

[Trevor C. Meyer]

Damn, killed the convo.

[123student]

eoyarbidem, What fascinates me with Dante and Milton is that both blend the Greek poetic-prophetic tradition with the Judeo-Christian prophetic tradition in their epics. The epic tradition (with its roots in Homer), combined with the religious themes of these Christian poets (with the Jewish roots of Christianity), arouses nearly endless consideration. I'd be interested to hear your background in Greek philosophy (an area in which I'm quite weak, although strong in religious studies) if we both end up in South Carolina's Comp. Lit.

Anyone going to SC's visiting weekend over March 22-24?