funded program vs. top tier unfunded school

[Chanel L]

I've been accepted to the MA in literature at Washington State University, with a teaching assistantship. I applied to the PhD in English at the University of Chicago and was rejected, but they bumped me to their Master's in Humanities program. The MAPH is intriuging but extremely costly and I wasn't offered any financial assistance (some students are offered half-tuition scholarships, but I was not).

I will probably go on to apply for PhD programs after my MA, so the cost of tuition at Chicago could be worth it if it makes me a stronger candidate, however, I wonder if it's a good choice for someone who won't ever make much money to saddle on this kind of debt, especially with a TA-ship on the table.

Is anyone else in this kind of situation?

[TripWillis]

Short answer: funded M.A. I think when it comes to M.A.s the prestige of the program isn't as important as it is at the PhD and BA levels. That's my two cents anyway.

[Chanel L]

Thanks, Latte. Would you have different thoughts if my goal were to teach English at the community college level after the MA? I'm not totally decided if I want to do that or pursue a PhD. Or both.

[TripWillis]

Thanks, Latte. Would you have different thoughts if my goal were to teach English at the community college level after the MA? I'm not totally decided if I want to do that or pursue a PhD. Or both.

If that were your goal, it seems like a M.Ed might be more valuable to you, no? Community college professors teach much more comp than lit, in which case you'd want to make your specialization comp/rhet. Just a thought. Edit: Point being that, again, I'd lean toward Washington State.

Edited March 21, 2012 by TripWillis

[ComeBackZinc]

Funding, funding, funding, funding. And TripWillis is right, per usual.

[Chanel L]

The information I've received from CC instructors is that I would want an MA in English with a concentration in comp/rhet. I do not want to pursue an M. Ed.

Thanks to you both.

[sobeobe]

Not that it matters, but I agree with everyone else: funding.

[ahembree]

Chanel L, I'm basically in your same situation, only substitue Villanova for Washington St.

Right now I have a hard time turning either offer down for a few reasons. On the one hand I love Chicago (the university and the city), and would be ecstatic to work with the faculty and have access to the program's amazing resources. Chicago is also particularly great for critical theory, which I am in to. The prestige factor is also hard to ignore. As for Villanova, I'm on the waitlist for a grad assistantship, which would provide a stipend for both years. Even if I don't get that, a tuition remission there means a part-time job is all I would need to stay afloat for living expenses, unlike the five-figure debt in Chi-town.

My priorities are to prepare for a Ph.D. app after the M.A., which is why I am gearing responses to the departments based on recent Ph.D. placements. If I removed that variable, I'm not sure I'd still be looking at the MAPH with a funded offer elsewhere. Check with both schools about recent job placements, and also think about where you want to live/teach if you go the community college route. As I know nothing about Philadelphia, that is a consideration for me at the moment

On the plus side, congrats on having two options! It feels good after months of soul-crushing thumb-twiddling.

[Two Espressos]

Always follow the money. I read in the Chronicle of Higher Education today about a woman with ~80k in loans who is designing a comic series of some sort about her experiences. She said she hopes to pay off her loans by age 40. That's just sad. I hate to see that happen to people.

The Chicago MAPH program is pretty theory-heavy, no? I'd imagine that it wouldn't be as conducive to your tentative goal of teaching at a community college as Washington State would be, unless Chicago has some sort of comp/rhetoric focus of which I'm unaware?

[Homeless]

ahembree, another thing to think about is the MAPH program is only a one year program, so it would mean either spending a year outside of school so you can use Thesis (and, hopefully, Chicago connections) for your grad apps, or, I guess, apply while you're still in your first semester. There's nothing wrong with taking some time off before starting a phd, but that really depends on your priorities and how much debt you'll be looking at (and if you have loans, when they need to get paid). Just my thoughts.

[poeteer]

when you apply, your funding award (especially if not everyone gets one!) will actually look better on your C.V. than the name of your M.A. someone believes in you enough to give you full funding plus extra money and teaching experience for the future -- that means a lot. bonus: no crippling debt. go with the funded M.A for sure.

[UMontanaGrad]

Go for the TA, and not just because of the funding. Teaching is when you really start to learn. The experience is more valuable than prestige in the end. Washington State has a good Rhet and Comp program too.

Edited March 21, 2012 by UMontanaGrad

[Phil Sparrow]

Re: prestige factor. Be aware that the MAPH does not carry the same prestige as the PhD at Chicago. It is sometimes looked down upon by faculty at other programs because of its cash-cowitude and breadth (I've heard faculty grumble, "What the heck is a masters in 'the humanities' anyway?"). [Edit: I'm not suggesting I agree with this attitude! But , for adcoms, prestige follows programs, not schools.] As far as I understand, MAPH can be great, a wonderful resource and degree, if you pull the right strings and work the system well, but it is such a compressed, difficult, and large program that many people are unable to do so. A fellowship or TAship will look nice on your CV, though. It means someone wants to fund you.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Phil Sparrow

[Doctor Cleveland]

The funding and the teaching experience. Better if you're going on for a PhD, and much much better if you decide to teach community college with an MA.

(Hiring a Chicago MA in Humanities with no teaching experience is not as attractive as hiring someone with a state-school MA who's been teaching for the last two years.)

[Chanel L]

Thank you for all the replies! Yes, WSU has a stronger concentration in comp/rhet. I guess I'm struggling with deciding if I want to go the CC and comp/rhet route or the PhD literature/critical theory route, because I love both.

I'm still waiting to hear from U of Washington, and from the University of New Hampshire on whether I was awarded a TA-ship. Is anyone familiar with the UNH department? They seem really strong in comp/rhet.

[mcs717]

I'm in a similar boat. I was offered funding, but it is from my undergraduate institution (where I also majored in English, so it would be two degrees from the same department). I was also admitted to the state school where I currently live (U of Georgia) but without funding, and then to Georgetown (most likely without funding). "Follow the funding" seems a little tricky for me as it would mean going back to my undergrad which I've heard can be unappealing to doctoral programs. I'm definitely at a loss as to what would be the best for me knowing that I want to go to the best Ph.D. program I can after my MA. Any thoughts?

Edited March 21, 2012 by mcs717

[Chanel L]

Decaf, do you know if you could continue non-competitively onto the PhD after the MA in your undergrad department?

[Chanel L]

Sorry, I don't know how this site works yet That was meant for mcs717.

[mcs717]

Chanel L--no problem, I'm new to posting on these boards too! Answering your question: I believe so---its likely that I would been able to get into their Ph.D. program from the start, but I chose to apply only to their MA as I am hoping to end up somewhere else for my Ph.D. I hope that doesn't sound pretentious as I know getting into any English Ph.D. program is an honor in this highly competitive field---I am just hoping to elevate to a more respected program after my MA, and I'm afraid "going with the funding" in this particular case may limit my options...does anyone have evidence of going to your undergrad department for a higher degree being detrimental, or is that somewhat of a rumor?

Further, does it look bad to top-tier Ph.D. programs to go to an unfunded MA? Is that something that could disqualify you? It seems like there is a lot of talk about how these "cash-cows" are looked down upon, but Georgetown (and perhaps Chicago?, to bring it back to Chanel's initial question) seems to really boast a great placement record with their graduates. Does anyone know how their program is regarded among top Ph.D. programs? And if going unfunded is a real "no-no" to admissions committees?

[cquin]

Just going to echo everyone's sentiments and suggest WSU. I am in a similar position with CUNY's Master of Liberal Arts program and UF's fully funded MA. I have a feeling I'm going to accept UF's offer. At both schools, I will be preparing myself for PhD applications, but this way I won't go (completely) broke. Also, like Trip said, I believe ranking is less important for MAs than for PhDs.

[Chanel L]

Chanel L--no problem, I'm new to posting on these boards too! Answering your question: I believe so---its likely that I would been able to get into their Ph.D. program from the start, but I chose to apply only to their MA as I am hoping to end up somewhere else for my Ph.D. I hope that doesn't sound pretentious as I know getting into any English Ph.D. program is an honor in this highly competitive field---I am just hoping to elevate to a more respected program after my MA, and I'm afraid "going with the funding" in this particular case may limit my options...does anyone have evidence of going to your undergrad department for a higher degree being detrimental, or is that somewhat of a rumor?

Further, does it look bad to top-tier Ph.D. programs to go to an unfunded MA? Is that something that could disqualify you? It seems like there is a lot of talk about how these "cash-cows" are looked down upon, but Georgetown (and perhaps Chicago?, to bring it back to Chanel's initial question) seems to really boast a great placement record with their graduates. Does anyone know how their program is regarded among top Ph.D. programs? And if going unfunded is a real "no-no" to admissions committees?

My feeling, after reading a lot of information here, is that the work you produce and connections you make (with profs publishing in your area of interest) while in your MA will be more important than where it's from. I'm thinking more now about going to WSU and re-applying to the PhD in English at Chicago after I've earned my MA. It's too bad because Chicago is obviously the more exciting choice, but maybe it will be even more exciting in a few years if I can manage to get in without having to take on crippling debt.

[transcendental]

On 3/21/2012 at 12:15 PM, mcs717 said:

Chanel L--no problem, I'm new to posting on these boards too! Answering your question: I believe so---its likely that I would been able to get into their Ph.D. program from the start, but I chose to apply only to their MA as I am hoping to end up somewhere else for my Ph.D. I hope that doesn't sound pretentious as I know getting into any English Ph.D. program is an honor in this highly competitive field---I am just hoping to elevate to a more respected program after my MA, and I'm afraid "going with the funding" in this particular case may limit my options...does anyone have evidence of going to your undergrad department for a higher degree being detrimental, or is that somewhat of a rumor?

Further, does it look bad to top-tier Ph.D. programs to go to an unfunded MA? Is that something that could disqualify you? It seems like there is a lot of talk about how these "cash-cows" are looked down upon, but Georgetown (and perhaps Chicago?, to bring it back to Chanel's initial question) seems to really boast a great placement record with their graduates. Does anyone know how their program is regarded among top Ph.D. programs? And if going unfunded is a real "no-no" to admissions committees?

I was in a similar situation as you. Applying straight from BA, I had gotten into a couple unfunded MA offers and a funded one from my undergrad institution. I ended up taking the one from my undergrad because, well, it was funded, and there is no way I'd take out loans for a humanities degree. I was able to get valuable teaching experience and was able to write good writing samples. From what I've heard from professors, grad students, and on these boards, it is not a good idea to get all three degrees from the same place -- BA, MA, PhD-- unless it's from somewhere stratospheric like Harvard or Chicago, for job placement reasons, as employers like to see more variety. I don't think my choice limited my options necessarily and whatever did not get me into certain places was not likely due to the fact that I got my BA and MA from the same place. I would recommend taking the funded offer. You'll know the professors already, which will give you a leg up, and you can take it as prep for a better program that will come later on. I ended up getting into one program that was not a good fit for me right after my MA, and have gotten into 2 this round, with 1-2 still TBD. (I say that only to show that I was able to get in with BA and MA from the same place, not to be braggy).

[Doctor Cleveland]

Further, does it look bad to top-tier Ph.D. programs to go to an unfunded MA? Is that something that could disqualify you? It seems like there is a lot of talk about how these "cash-cows" are looked down upon, but Georgetown (and perhaps Chicago?, to bring it back to Chanel's initial question) seems to really boast a great placement record with their graduates. Does anyone know how their program is regarded among top Ph.D. programs? And if going unfunded is a real "no-no" to admissions committees?

Getting an unfunded MA, itself, will not disqualify you from anything. No one reading your Ph.D. app knows if you were funded or not (unless you have a special fellowship to brag about), and in any case paying for your own MA is very common.

What is potentially stigmatizing are programs like the MAPH, or Columbia's Master in Liberal Studies Program, which are designed to get across (through their names) that they are not "really" in the English Department. Adcomms at elite schools will likely see a program like that as a sign that you were not admitted into that university's English Department, and they are all too likely to view this as a weakness on your record.

Being in a "generalist" MA program at a prestigious school is something that an exceptional applicant can overcome. But that is how you should view it: as something to overcome.

[Stately Plump]

For me, unfunded is a no.

I have an offer to an unfunded MA in English at a top school. I'm not going. If they could guarantee I'd get into their PhD program, I'd consider it. But I'm not going anywhere without funding, not in the humanities.

[mcs717]

Thanks for your response, Doctor Cleveland. I'm wondering---is Georgetown's program usually considered as one of these "generalist" programs?