Looking for ways to find Ph.D

[AL_borlin]

Current Profile

Mechanical Bachelors : Reputed Uni, China

GPA : 3.60/4

Masters Industrial Engineering: Texas A & M Uni, USA

GPA : 3.25/4

GRE in 2006: 1160/1500 (old style)

TOEFL : 287/300

Currently have 3 years of experience in Industrial engineering/lean manufacturing corporate model implementation,

Recos : Former professor,

Current Supervisor and earlier supervisor very good recos

Looking for : Ph.D position

Problem : 1] Direction for finding Ph.D position ( how to find it ? what are established methodologies)

2] Do I require to give GRE again ?

3] how much time it takes to find a Ph.D ?

My current method is quite passive, I search profs and mail them for availability of position,very few of them ever reply. there are very FEW positions which gets advertised ( all over world) to which I can openly apply. its been 2 months and I could only muster 3 applications. Can any one guide. Is there something I need to change ?

Edited March 24, 2012 by AL_borlin

[ghanada]

Unfortunately I am not in the mechanical/industrial eng field, so I can not speak specifically to those areas. However, I know most the eng fields are similar in terms of gaining admission to a funded PHD. It sounds like you are trying to get into a U.S. school? How did you find your Masters program? Finding a PhD program is very similar.

1) The best way to start looking for PhD programs is to go through the rankings (US News, NRC, etc). Now I don't buy into the rankings and place all my money on them, but they can at least be a starting point of potential colleges to look into. There is a lot of debate about how perfect the rankings are, but even so you can bet a top 10 ranked school is viewed favorably in terms of jobs and prestige. Once you find potential schools just search the department webpages and read about their research and then go through all the professor profiles and lab webpages to find out if their work matches what you want to do. If you find something that looks interesting, keep track of it and add that school to your list. Pay attention to the admissions info and note all the materials and deadlines.

2) You will most likely need to retake the GRE. GRE scores are good for 5 years so last year would have been the last year to use them.

3) It takes a decent amount of time to find a PhD. It takes A LOT of time to do the applications, gather materials, and apply to lots of programs. Depending on how ambitious you are and the quality of schools you apply to, some people only apply to 2-3 schools. Others like me apply to 18-20 schools. Obviously it takes much longer to fill out 20 apps than 2.

My biggest concern for your app would be your Masters GPA. Most people do better in a Masters than undergrad, especially since Masters grades tend to be a bit inflated. You will definitely have to address that in your personal statement. I am not sure how good of programs you are shooting for, but you should check the other threads with applicant profiles to get a sense of how you stack up and what schools you could potentially get into. Hope that helps a bit, let me know if you have any other questions.

[krbhnp]

Hi, I am a new user to this forum...I also have similar problems....I am currently in my UG course in Electrical engg in India..(This is my last semester) I want to do PhD but confused on how to apply..I mean should i apply to MS leading to PhD or simply to the PhD degree? Can we mention MS + PhD on the same application? Anyways thanks in advance.....

[ghanada]

If your final goal is to get a PhD, apply DIRECTLY for a PhD. Now, some schools don't allow this and have the option for doing an "MS leading to PhD", if that is the case, do that. The admissions websites are very specific in saying the requirements for a PhD and I have found that 90% of the school do NOT require an M.S. first and they are explicit in saying that if your intention is to get a PhD, then apply directly for the PhD. Now, even if you do apply directly for the PhD, there is usually an option on the application that asks if you would still like to be considered for a Masters if you don't get accepted to the PhD. You should probably check that box. If the application does not have this option built in, you can mention this somewhere, like in your personal statement or sometimes applications will have an area to make comments or upload any random documents you want.

[Chasely]

+1 to this. Almost every program I have looked into does not require an MSE to apply to a PhD. You'll end up getting your MS along the way if you don't have it already.

If your final goal is to get a PhD, apply DIRECTLY for a PhD. Now, some schools don't allow this and have the option for doing an "MS leading to PhD", if that is the case, do that. The admissions websites are very specific in saying the requirements for a PhD and I have found that 90% of the school do NOT require an M.S. first and they are explicit in saying that if your intention is to get a PhD, then apply directly for the PhD. Now, even if you do apply directly for the PhD, there is usually an option on the application that asks if you would still like to be considered for a Masters if you don't get accepted to the PhD. You should probably check that box. If the application does not have this option built in, you can mention this somewhere, like in your personal statement or sometimes applications will have an area to make comments or upload any random documents you want.

[KKirill]

Hello Everybody,

I am going to attend MSc in Operations Research in Fall 2012. However, my final goal is Phd.

Now it looks like in order not to waste one year I should apply to Phd till December of 2012. It looks quite risky for me - I think it is difficult to get good recommendations from professors after just 3 months of education, and also my GPA will just up to December and obviously no research experience.

What do you think about that case? Maybe, you have heard that they have some "extensions" for enrolled students?

Thanks!

[ghanada]

Hello Everybody,

I am going to attend MSc in Operations Research in Fall 2012. However, my final goal is Phd.

Now it looks like in order not to waste one year I should apply to Phd till December of 2012. It looks quite risky for me - I think it is difficult to get good recommendations from professors after just 3 months of education, and also my GPA will just up to December and obviously no research experience.

What do you think about that case? Maybe, you have heard that they have some "extensions" for enrolled students?

Thanks!

Are you going to try and do your PhD at the same school as your MSc? If that is the case, transferring from a Masters to a PhD is usually just dependent on finding an adviser in the department to work with that wants you and has funding. It happens all the time (including for myself). A connection to a faculty member with funding is the greatest asset you can have when looking for a PhD.

Now, if you want to apply to other schools than this is more tricky. Have you done any work this year that would enhance your application since this application year? If all you will have to add is the 3 months in the upcoming fall semester, than it might not be worth applying for PhDs at other schools yet. It would probably be more beneficial to wait 1 year so you can show your grad GPA. The other thing is that you should start researching in a lab ASAP. You would want to get your grad adviser to write you a new letter of rec and try to publish if you can. You obviously won't get anything published before you apply to a PhD, but you could at least start writing a paper and having that listed as "in progress" on your app will still be helpful.

[ISEngineer]

Hello Everybody,

I am going to attend MSc in Operations Research in Fall 2012. However, my final goal is Phd.

Now it looks like in order not to waste one year I should apply to Phd till December of 2012. It looks quite risky for me - I think it is difficult to get good recommendations from professors after just 3 months of education, and also my GPA will just up to December and obviously no research experience.

What do you think about that case? Maybe, you have heard that they have some "extensions" for enrolled students?

Thanks!

Hi KKirill,

I did just the same. Went for a 1 year Masters and right after that applied to Phds. I got 3 out of 5 acceptances to my application and had two professors from my new university writing me a recommendation letter. After arriving I went straight to the professors and told them my plan. As the semester starts in August, the grade was almost complete when they wrote me the letter in late november. Further I communicated a lot with my professors during office hours and was very active in the classroom. I had further one recommendation from my home country from a professor who supervised my bachelor thesis. The recs where good enough to shoot me into Georgia Tech, University of Washington, and Virginia Tech. But I got rejected from Stanford and Berkeley.

Edited April 9, 2012 by ISEngineer

[Pauli]

If your final goal is to get a PhD, apply DIRECTLY for a PhD. Now, some schools don't allow this and have the option for doing an "MS leading to PhD", if that is the case, do that. The admissions websites are very specific in saying the requirements for a PhD and I have found that 90% of the school do NOT require an M.S. first and they are explicit in saying that if your intention is to get a PhD, then apply directly for the PhD. Now, even if you do apply directly for the PhD, there is usually an option on the application that asks if you would still like to be considered for a Masters if you don't get accepted to the PhD. You should probably check that box. If the application does not have this option built in, you can mention this somewhere, like in your personal statement or sometimes applications will have an area to make comments or upload any random documents you want.

There is so much wrong in this post. What you said pretty much contradicts what actually happens. It easily works both ways in pursing a PhD, either with or without a Masters.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Pauli

[ghanada]

There is so much wrong in this post. What you said pretty much contradicts what actually happens. It easily works both ways in pursing a PhD, either with or without a Masters.

Sorry, I guess it might be different for computer science? My advice was from my own experience with BME so I thought it might be true for the @krbhnp, but I could easily be wrong.

It has been my experience that if your goal is to get a PhD, then you apply directly to the PhD (unless the school doesn't allow that). And then some schools have a Masters leading to PhD option, so I thought that is what you are supposed to do if you don't have a Masters yet. Could you be more clear on exactly why this is incorrect? I admit I could be wrong, but I guess I didn't understand from your post exactly what "actually happens"?

[Pauli]

It has been my experience that if your goal is to get a PhD, then you apply directly to the PhD (unless the school doesn't allow that). And then some schools have a Masters leading to PhD option, so I thought that is what you are supposed to do if you don't have a Masters yet. Could you be more clear on exactly why this is incorrect? I admit I could be wrong, but I guess I didn't understand from your post exactly what "actually happens"?

That's my fault. I was being condescending in my previous post, and I apologize. You are correct that applying directly to a PhD is good thing to do if one wishes to pursue a PhD, but there are also pretty good strengths to going the Masters route for a couple reasons. The one that stands out is that it strengthens one's CV when applying to a research lab or faculty position as it diversifies your research portfolio (it's very common that Masters research has to be distinct from PhD research). Another one is that it gives someone an opportunity who obtained a Masters to apply to another university for PhD with stronger credentials due to gaining more research experience compared to someone applying directly from a Bachelors.

[ghanada]

That's my fault. I was being condescending in my previous post, and I apologize. You are correct that applying directly to a PhD is good thing to do if one wishes to pursue a PhD, but there are also pretty good strengths to going the Masters route for a couple reasons. The one that stands out is that it strengthens one's CV when applying to a research lab or faculty position as it diversifies your research portfolio (it's very common that Masters research has to be distinct from PhD research). Another one is that it gives someone an opportunity who obtained a Masters to apply to another university for PhD with stronger credentials due to gaining more research experience compared to someone applying directly from a Bachelors.

Ahhh I see, I think we were answering 2 different things. I was originally responding to @krbhnp, whom asked HOW to apply to the PhD on the application itself. I think the poster was just confused as to which box to choose when filling out the application because he/she wasn't familiar with the difference in choices between "PhD" and "Masters leading to PhD". I was trying to clarify the semantics.

haha, I actually completely agree with you that a Masters is beneficial, which is why I did a Masters before applying for PhDs. Your points are dead on with my personal experience and I actually think obtaining a Masters before PhD is a great route to go (granted it doesn't cost too much money). And what you said about being eligible for a stronger PhD after the Masters is exactly what happened to me...my Masters is at a top 50 eng school, my PhD will be at a top 10 school and that was entirely because I got the Masters first.

[KKirill]

Ghanada & ISEngineer thanks a lot!

1) I don't want to wait one year - because I am an international student and I will be 26 when my MSc starts. So If I skip one year, I will be 27 appling to PhD, I don't know whether it is a problem in the US or not...

2) I am going to MSc in Operations Research at a top 10 school - and pursuing Phd there will be a fantastic opportunity! but how doesn't dream about MIT and Stanford?))

3) And if it happens, I don't even understand how I can spend this "additional year" to add smth to my application pack - as I see business experience is not beneficial, so it should be worth to work in some research enviroment. Will it be possible to find some research place in the unversity where I have defended my MSc (smth like a research assistant)?

[contretemps]

In my experience, if your end goal is a PhD then why not apply directly for one after your undergrad? I think it's all a matter of luck and timing. Last year I applied to 3 MS programs with 0 acceptances. This year I applied to 4 PhD programs and got 3 acceptances. The only thing that changed in that 1 year is an additional year of teaching experience.

[ghanada]

Ghanada & ISEngineer thanks a lot!

1) I don't want to wait one year - because I am an international student and I will be 26 when my MSc starts. So If I skip one year, I will be 27 appling to PhD, I don't know whether it is a problem in the US or not...

2) I am going to MSc in Operations Research at a top 10 school - and pursuing Phd there will be a fantastic opportunity! but how doesn't dream about MIT and Stanford?))

3) And if it happens, I don't even understand how I can spend this "additional year" to add smth to my application pack - as I see business experience is not beneficial, so it should be worth to work in some research enviroment. Will it be possible to find some research place in the unversity where I have defended my MSc (smth like a research assistant)?

For what it's worth, I started my Masters at age 26 and I am going to start my PhD in the fall when I will be 29. For all my acceptances, my age helped me a lot and I probably wouldn't have gotten them without being on the older side. So in my opinion, age is actually a benefit. It isn't the end of the world to start a PhD later in life, happens all the time.

I wouldn't focus so much on MIT/Stanford. There is NO WAY to judge what your chances are of getting into those places. I have seen domestic applicants with 4.0 gpa, few years of research, first author pubs, patents, industry exp, etc and get rejected like it is no big deal. I would encourage applying there, but I wouldn't put all my hope in those 2 schools and feel like you missed out if you didn't get in. You should def apply to many other programs that fit you well. I still think that if you are happy with the school you are going to do your Masters at, you should try and stay there for your PhD. It will be the easiest transition and probably shorten the time it would take to finish the PhD. And if it is a top 10 school I don't see why going to MIT/Stanford is so important? Believe me, I understand the allure of those names, but I have met plenty of incredibly successful people that did not attend those schools. Don't sweat it.

[Pauli]

1) I don't want to wait one year - because I am an international student and I will be 26 when my MSc starts. So If I skip one year, I will be 27 appling to PhD, I don't know whether it is a problem in the US or not...

I started my PhD when I was 25, but many of the people who started with me were in their late 20s or early 30s.

2) I am going to MSc in Operations Research at a top 10 school - and pursuing Phd there will be a fantastic opportunity! but how doesn't dream about MIT and Stanford?))

It's not where you go, but how you spend your time there.

[AL_borlin]

WOW Pauli nice to see you are from College Station, I am alumini of the Same....

anyways this is to update every one that I have had been selected for two schools for Ph.D program One in US and other in other part of World.. My GPA did play a roll but my credentials wrt work experience and direct relation to field of study I chose mattered a lot. not to forget My reco letters...

But yes I got it...