Family Drama...now I'm uppity?

[MDLee]

So I tried to go to lunch with my mom yesterday. :roll: Tried, of course being the operative word. Everything I did she yelled at me for and then when I got tired of it and finally put my foot down she went off. She said that ever since I hit grad school I've been "Uppity" and that my whole family is sick of it...that she's tired of covering for me.

Background info I guess is that the rest of the fam denies such "sick of it" feelings.

My older sister is positive that my higher education is making me "liberal" and that she doesn't understand me anymore. Seems that with studying human rights I have a desire to fight for global applications of these rights ("and with this country having as many problems as it has...") she just can't see why I'd want to do that.

Sigh.

Is this a normal situation? Thought my mom was supposed to be proud of my attempts at higher education.

[swr22]

Of course, liberal=uppity! Family dynamics are inevitably complicated, but the only advice that I could give is to have a conversation about why you care about what you do. Try not to lecture but let them have your save while you convince them that you are doing this because you are genuine about it. Good luck!

[Tonights]

It sounds to me like your family may be experiencing some jealousy or fear issues about your level of schooling. Are you the first in your family to pursue higher education?

[MDLee]

It sounds to me like your family may be experiencing some jealousy or fear issues about your level of schooling. Are you the first in your family to pursue higher education?

More or less. Irony of ironies, not two days ago when I suggested that I wanted to stop after a Master's and teach school my mother lost it over that too. Can't win. :roll:

[ewurgler]

Even those who are supportive but are not familiar with academia just don't "get it" and probably never will--just like many other professions.

Could be fear, jealousy, scared you are veering away from what they "value," but you know it has to be done and you are committed, emotionally and intellectually, to what you will study. You don't have to sacrifice your familial relationships, but I suppose they will be strained for a time.

My own intellectual pursuits have brought me into serious conflicts with my family's "values" (mainly their evangelical christianity). Just hope that they will take the time they need to make peace with who you are/what you do, and continue to work on a relationship with them, on terms both parties can be happy with.

On your side, remain open with your studies and what is happening with that aspect of your life, but don't expect them to want to know about the details of the project you are researching, etc.

And for now, blame the religious right for the anti-intellectual, "real american" sentiments they have been spewing since the 80s

[riss287]

My family is the epitome of the "real American," conservatives-are-right-and-those-damn-liberals-will-ruin-everything idea. I am the only even slightly liberal person in my whole family. They tolerate me, but I think they think I'm nuts because I care about disability rights and am liberal on many issues. They blame my "liberal education", even though I went to a very, very conservative religious college. I was an odd ball there too, but the professors were more or less like me. I guess that's where I got my "liberal education" from. Sometimes I find myself being preachy, and I stop, but sometimes it's so hard to listen to talk about those damn liberals and the damn Mexicans and blacks and everything else. It's ridiculous. You'd think those types of attitudes would have changed a long time ago. I can't change my family, but hopefully future generations will be different.

[MDLee]

Even those who are supportive but are not familiar with academia just don't "get it" and probably never will--just like many other professions.

Could be fear, jealousy, scared you are veering away from what they "value," but you know it has to be done and you are committed, emotionally and intellectually, to what you will study. You don't have to sacrifice your familial relationships, but I suppose they will be strained for a time.

My own intellectual pursuits have brought me into serious conflicts with my family's "values" (mainly their evangelical christianity). Just hope that they will take the time they need to make peace with who you are/what you do, and continue to work on a relationship with them, on terms both parties can be happy with.

On your side, remain open with your studies and what is happening with that aspect of your life, but don't expect them to want to know about the details of the project you are researching, etc.

And for now, blame the religious right for the anti-intellectual, "real american" sentiments they have been spewing since the 80s

Its funny because I still consider myself to be pretty conservative. I just feel like I weigh both sides and then come to an informed decision...it isn't always the black and white, good vs. evil, Manichean paradigm that some of my family members subscribe to. The older I get the more that I realize you can be very religious without being very Christian, if that makes sense. And it frustrates me that they would suggest that my education would forever taint me...

God give me patience. sheeessh.

[MDLee]

My family is the epitome of the "real American," conservatives-are-right-and-those-damn-liberals-will-ruin-everything idea. I am the only even slightly liberal person in my whole family. They tolerate me, but I think they think I'm nuts because I care about disability rights and am liberal on many issues. They blame my "liberal education", even though I went to a very, very conservative religious college. I was an odd ball there too, but the professors were more or less like me. I guess that's where I got my "liberal education" from. Sometimes I find myself being preachy, and I stop, but sometimes it's so hard to listen to talk about those damn liberals and the damn Mexicans and blacks and everything else. It's ridiculous. You'd think those types of attitudes would have changed a long time ago. I can't change my family, but hopefully future generations will be different.

Ditto. My parents think I'm out of my mind because I care about genocide in places that are far away...my sister says I should be feeding the homeless here. They all think I'm liberal because I have a broad human rights agenda...yikes.

[synthla]

And for now, blame the religious right for the anti-intellectual, "real american" sentiments they have been spewing since the 80s

I think you can make a strong argument that a significant strain of anti-intellectualism has been running through American society far longer than that. I'm admittedly generalizing, but Americans can't stand the idea that one person might be "better" in some dimension than another, especially intellectually. Unless, of course, the "betterness" is related to some form of vapid celebrity or athletic prowess. But god forbid you say someone is smarter than another, unless they're your child or grandchild.

[MDLee]

I think you can make a strong argument that a significant strain of anti-intellectualism has been running through American society far longer than that. I'm admittedly generalizing, but Americans can't stand the idea that one person might be "better" in some dimension than another, especially intellectually. Unless, of course, the "betterness" is related to some form of vapid celebrity or athletic prowess. But god forbid you say someone is smarter than another, unless they're your child or grandchild.

Synthla! You got rejected from UCSD too? I was beginning to think I was the only one. And I agree. The "we're all special...just like everyone else" syndrome has gone to everyone's head.

[riss287]

I think that saying everyone is special like everyone else is unrealistic. Obviously, some people are going to be more intelligent, taller, shorter, better at sports, etc. than other people. I think, though, that we shouldn't judge people negatively because their intelligence might not be as much as someone else's. I know I totally said the exact opposite of that about my family, but it's kind of hard to put into words exactly what I mean in a forum like this. I just get wary of judging intellect because of the eugenics movement, judging people's worth based on subjective ideals. If I had been born 100 years ago, I would have been sterilized because of my vision. They did the same thing for mental disabilities. Anyway, obviously people are going to be different but they should not be ranked. None of that probably made any sense at all....

[synthla]

I think that saying everyone is special like everyone else is unrealistic. Obviously, some people are going to be more intelligent, taller, shorter, better at sports, etc. than other people. I think, though, that we shouldn't judge people negatively because their intelligence might not be as much as someone else's. I know I totally said the exact opposite of that about my family, but it's kind of hard to put into words exactly what I mean in a forum like this. I just get wary of judging intellect because of the eugenics movement, judging people's worth based on subjective ideals. If I had been born 100 years ago, I would have been sterilized because of my vision. They did the same thing for mental disabilities. Anyway, obviously people are going to be different but they should not be ranked. None of that probably made any sense at all....

I completely agree with you riss, no one should be looked down on or judged harshly because of any quality that is outside of their control; I only meant to point out that in this country it is generally okay to observe that someone is a fast runner, relative to another person, but people often take umbrage at the suggestion that anyone is smarter (ignoring for the sake of argument that there are many possible definitions) than another person. Now I don't need people telling me I'm smart, so it's not a personal thing, but just an observation of society's comfort with different measurements of ability.

MDLee: Yep, my rejection from UCSD was the first decision I received. There's at least a couple more over on the History thread. I wasn't really a good fit with anyone there, and looking back, it was probably a mistake to apply because of that. Live and learn!

[ewurgler]

I think you can make a strong argument that a significant strain of anti-intellectualism has been running through American society far longer than that. I'm admittedly generalizing, but Americans can't stand the idea that one person might be "better" in some dimension than another, especially intellectually. Unless, of course, the "betterness" is related to some form of vapid celebrity or athletic prowess. But god forbid you say someone is smarter than another, unless they're your child or grandchild.

Yes, but the conservative anti-intellectualism that has most recently been tied to patriotism is a relatively new tactic of the neoconservative moment. Back in the 50's during the rise of neoconservative out of anti-communism, there were some serious intellectuals and theorists contributing to the ideology--this has since been overtaken by joe the plumber.

[riss287]

I completely agree with you riss, no one should be looked down on or judged harshly because of any quality that is outside of their control; I only meant to point out that in this country it is generally okay to observe that someone is a fast runner, relative to another person, but people often take umbrage at the suggestion that anyone is smarter (ignoring for the sake of argument that there are many possible definitions) than another person. Now I don't need people telling me I'm smart, so it's not a personal thing, but just an observation of society's comfort with different measurements of ability.

I completely agree. I heard recently that some elementary and middle schools are doing away with the "gifted and smart" programs. Some smart people get way too full of themselves sometimes, but so do runners and swimmers (take Michael Phelps for example), and anyone who is relatively good at something.

[illinoisellie]

Yikes.

Well, judging from my experience as someone whose family doesn't understand why I would want a PhD, I think just as much as being afraid of intellectuals, or not liking intellectuals, its also a factor of the "teachings" of the working class person - the American Dream and all that ...*ahem*... stuff.

Working class individuals sometimes don't understand how you can get a good job without being an "apprentice" or something like a secretary and working your way up the business ladder. My dad immigrated when he was 4 with his parents from post-WWII Germany while my mom also had a hard time of it and neither of them graduated from college.

We all will start at the bottom of our professional fields when we graduate, but we will have worked our way up to a different ladder through grad school.

And yes - mom, dad, aunt, uncle, grandmother, grandfather - I will be able to get a job once I graduate even though I'm not a NURSE or DOCTOR. ( I hope :wink: )

for heavens sake.

[inactive_since_inf]

...

And yes - mom, dad, aunt, uncle, grandmother, grandfather - I will be able to get a job once I graduate even though I'm not a NURSE or DOCTOR. ( I hope :wink: )

for heavens sake.

We hope too... :wink:

[MDLee]

Has anyone figured out why having a degree and a job is not enough...why it has to be a specific job? My mom will never be happy until I am a journalist or a lawyer. Neither particularly impress me...guess we're at an impasse. :roll:

[inactive_since_inf]

My parents agreed for my study plan thinking I'll be done with a PhD in 2-3 years (I don't know how they got this idea in the first place). Now how do I make X (which is presently 3 now) tend towards 2X without a discontinuity... (I mean, without them raising a brow)

[liszt85]

Make sure X is differentiable all the way long, i.e., make sure he gets to interact with the right environment which will give him a strong sense of individuality (hence "differentiable") and try to avoid singularities (like rashes, injuries, etc on X's body/mind). Your parents won't notice a thing. I'm just ranting now.. I'm getting pissed off at Berkeley for keeping me in the dark for so long :| and I know its going to be a reject for sure, but I need confirmation so that I can get on with my business!

[solefolia]

I haven't gotten the "uppity" thing yet, but I don't doubt I will eventually. Right now my family is supportive, but skeptical. I get "5-6 YEARS??" a lot. They seem to be put at ease by the fact that I get paid (stipend) and tuition is covered, so i won't need to take out any additional loans. Despite them not really understanding what a PhD is good for ("I thought the only doctors were the medical kind?), let alone what I actually want to research, I'm fortunate that they are assuming that I know what I'm doing and that it is what's best for me.

[MDLee]

I get "5-6 YEARS??" a lot.

My mom seriously thought I could get my MA in 18 months and my PhD in 36! I was like..."Mom, the course work alone for the PhD takes two years...then you have to take the time to do original research and that takes time!" She got totally indignant, of course. I mean, didn't I know that so-and-so's wife had gotten a PhD in a different field and wrote her whole dissertation in 6 months?

:roll: puh-leaze.

But there we were...arguing whether or not it was possible to NOT spend your entire 20's in school to get a PhD...

then there's the inevitable "What are you going to do once you have one?"...

well...your guess is as good as mine, mom. :roll:

[Yellow#5]

MD,

Since you are currently living in the wasteland were I grew up, I feel your pain.

First off, I must say in response to this:

...my sister says I should be feeding the homeless here. They all think I'm liberal because I have a broad human rights agenda...yikes.

Perhaps your sister should be feeding the homeless, since you are busy with your own goals.

Has anyone figured out why having a degree and a job is not enough...why it has to be a specific job? My mom will never be happy until I am a journalist or a lawyer. Neither particularly impress me...guess we're at an impasse.

And frankly, I don't know what your mom thinks lawyers do. I'm lucky enough to have a job at a fairly large and secure firm, but we have temp attorneys working on a million projects. At the drop of a dime, we call an agency and ask for 90 lawyers for an emergency project and 90 unemployed lawyers magically appear every single time we do, so "lawyer" doesn't mean much these days, except 150k in student loan debt.

And the only people losing their jobs faster than lawyers (and maybe realtors) are journalists. Every newspaper is hurting, in case you didn't notice.

The only real life skills are learned by grad students in interminable Phd programs. If you can make a meal out of a can of corn and generic pancake mix, you are set for life! Skills like those are better than a fat 401k, cause you never loose them

[riss287]

Everyone in my family seems to think that I won't finish. They all CLAIM that they have full faith in my abilities to be in school for another 7 or so years, but they keep saying "s*** happens". They apparently think I'm going to get knocked up and quit after a year or something.

[Yellow#5]

Everyone in my family seems to think that I won't finish. They all CLAIM that they have full faith in my abilities to be in school for another 7 or so years, but they keep saying "s*** happens". They apparently think I'm going to get knocked up and quit after a year or something.

just because they don't believe in birth control, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[riss287]

And my mother's answer to that is, "Accidents happen." They have an answer to everything it seems!