A Long and Kind of Depressing Post (You've Been Warned)

[orinincandenza]

It's taken me almost two years, but I think I've finally realized how badly I've messed up this whole process. I applied to ten schools this year - nine PhD programs - including two ivy schools and a bunch of top tens. This, it now seems like, was a huge mistake.

I know it's still somewhat early and this probably sounds paranoid and pessimistic (but welcome to the grad cafe, right?), but I'm gearing up for across the board rejections and next year's apps already, and I'm planning on looking into a lot more MA programs.

I don't have an MA and I'm wondering if those of you who've been accepted to PhD programs this year do. My professors seemed to think I should apply straight to the PhD programs, but based on stats I see here and my own (many) rejections, it just doesn't seem like a sound philosophy.

Getting my MA at a school that I'm not super excited about -- and doing a really great job and working really hard to get into a good PhD program -- would be so nice I think. I've only applied to two MA programs, though, so I might have to wait another year [Kevin-from-Home-Alone scream] to do that. Thoughts? Advice?

And since maybe I've never been explicit enough about this: thank you for all the advice and support I've found on here.

[omgninjas]

[Warning]

I'm sorry this application season has been rough for you, but don't give up until it's over. None of us are immune to the doom and gloom, but with that said, I'd like to respond to a few of the things being discussed here.

First, to answer your question, I'm an undergrad applying to PhD programs (all of my schools are from #5 - #20 on USNWR [sorry to be vulgar and bring rankings into the mix, but you know how it is]). I've been lucky so far with admissions, but I think I made the right decision. It's my first swing, so why not see how I do among the heavy hitters first?

On the MA, I think it was the right decision to go after some top tier schools. It's hard for a first time applicant to visualize how they stack up against the competition, and I think it's better to overshoot than to aim too low. You have the opportunity to reapply every year, but typically once you're in a program, especially for the PhD, you're there. As vechrite has pointed out, the MA usually comes out of your pocket, so unless you get into a program with funding, that should probably be your last option. If you honestly feel as though your application was too weak, an MA can certainly help you shore it up, but depending on where you go, it can restrict your upward mobility, more so I think, than where you got your BA. This is just speculation on my part, of course.

As far as being able to get a good PhD education anywhere, I don't necessarily agree. The quality gap between PhD programs widens quickly as you go from "best" to "worst". It's true that you can't assume that if you attend school xyz you'll be closely working with all their academic celebrities, but those superstars tend to attract more ton notch faculty, so that the rich tend to get richer and the poor stay poor. The same can be said regarding a school's resources and student body. The way that the job market is looking, I really don't feel that there are many schools outside of the top 30 or so that are worth attending for a PhD unless they have an incredible fit for your interests. You can't live off a reputation, but schools that have it tend to have it for a reason.

Anyways, it seems like you have a mindset that won't allow you to be deterred. If things don't pan out this season, you'll be a crafty veteran next year. Ask some of the schools that rejected you if they would be willing to share why, and take the appropriate steps. I've read enough feel-good stories regarding repeat applicants to be confident you'll get where you want to go eventually. If an MA helps you out, great. If you can avoid spending any cash, (other than the obligatory $1k or so for the application/test taking process) even better.

It's a hell of a meat grinder, but the fact that you're on this board, asking these questions suggests that you're already better equipped than most of your competition. Hope some of the schools you applied to feel the same way.

[plasticastle]

I'm essentially in the same postion as you. I've applied to ten top tier schools, and I'm only an undergraduate. In addition, I applied to only three MA programs, one of which has already rejected me. I vehemently agree with all of the advice stated above. I can already state that I would have done some things differently, but it's in the past, and now I must look ahead. If I'm not accepted to any of my PhD programs, I will be devastated. However, I am also realizing that I can't let a series of rejections dissuade me from pursuing the very thing I love.

One thing to keep in mind is not everything in life follows a smooth path. If all things worked out as planned, we would never grow and learn as individuals. One of my undergraduate professors, whom I constantly badger with questions and concerns about this process, explained it this way: she told me that most people going through this process (and who have gone through this process) may take a few detours along the way. These detours (rejections or criticisms) are often the things that contribute to our successful development as we progress in life, even more so than our successes. Everything always works out for the best. At least I keep telling this to myself.

I'm not sure if this is what you want to hear, but I hope it helps. Good luck!

[booksareneat]

Perhaps it is just the type of people who end up posting in this forum, but I feel like you're missing something here. Yes, Princeton, Berkley, etc... have fantastic faculty. Yes, they have fantastic reputations, but that's not the question. The first question, is what do you want to be doing? Do you want to be teaching at a Research I school? Would you rather spend more time with students and less time making sure your CV is packed? Would you rather be at a small liberal arts school or a major state school?

Depending on how you answer those questions, that's how you should be answering the aim for the stars question. If you want to be at a smaller school where you can spend time with more students, then you shouldn't be necessarily thinking of Yale. If you want to be at a research school, then yes, you need to be working to get into a top program.

Also, some top programs don't have as great job placement as you would expect. That's a major factor.

Schools like Washington University (WUSTL or is it WashU?) and Emory University have great job placement.

As for the MA, for me it's done wonders. I love books before, but now I really know how to write about them. I have a very clear idea of what I study and what theories I use, etc... There are schools that fund MA students and let you cut your chops on teaching (to figure out whether or not you actually like those punks) and I think that going the MA route is not a bad one at all.

[orinincandenza]

This is all really useful information, thanks everybody. I'm in agreement with most of the points made here. I'm certainly not attached to any school solely because of its reputation. However, I am more into the idea of research than I am teaching (I mean that very generally; of course I expect teaching to be a big part of my eventual career), so a place like Loyola would be great for me I think -- somewhere big and with lots of resources and faculty I think would be great to work with, but not necessarily a big US News-ranked school.

Also, something sort of backwards happened -- when I should have been doing all my research and learning the minutia of each program, I was actually just doing all the nuts-and-bolts app stuff. It was taking up all my free time. Of course now, in the past few months when my apps have long been processed, I'm learning even more about the programs to which I applied, and unfortunately learning that the ones I spent so much money and got rejected from right away (ahem, UChicago, UIC) are schools I probably wouldn't have been very happy at anyway. This is especially frustrating for me since this is my second time applying. You'd think I would have used last summer and fall to get a really complete picture of every single program I applied to, but really I was just re-testing and re-drafting SoPs and writing samples. But whatever. If I have to do it all again, I'll do it again, and better.

The MA option seems good to me because as much as I want to get going on all this (I'm 24 and I feel way older; I get more anxious by the day about FINALLY STARTING GRAD SCHOOL), I also try to remind myself that I'm no hurry, really. This is my career, something I'm sure I'll be working toward constructing and perfecting my whole life, so if I take two years to get a good hold on exactly what it is I want to do, I'm fine with putting off the PhD for a tiny bit longer. Of course, funding is certainly an issue. But I'll worry that when the time comes.

Again: thanks! You guys are really helpful. Now I'm going to leave work early, go to the gym, and drink a glass of wine and watch The Wire. And wait for the weekend, or an acceptance letter, or both.

[guenevere01]

Don't worry - 24 is NOT too old (or even old in any sense!) to be starting a program! You'll be in good company. Best of luck!

[lotf629]

I am 28. I am starting a PhD this fall. I will turn 29 within a month of entering the program. 24 is wicked young.

[Lisa]

I'm 28, too and will be 29 soon. 24 is still young.

[orinincandenza]

Thanks gang. I know it's young. I just really dread the possibility of having to do something in between my undergrad and grad school years, because there's nothing I really want to do except continue my education and start my career.

Right now I'm doing this year-long Americorps program which barely pays the bills but is perfectly timed since it ends in August of this year. If I have to apply again, I'll have to find somthing else to keep me busy during the wait, and that is not what I want, especially what with the economy and all. Plus you can only have so many 1-year stints on your resume before people start to wonder what's up. "But I was a prospective student all those years!" is probably what I'll end up saying. I'll live, though. Stay positive, fingers crossed, etc.

[Ripper]

I am 39 now, and will be 40 when I start my PhD (providing the funding goes through from my acceptance).

I have never looked at the rankings for the schools I have applied to; I couldn't care a less about them. I applied to programs that are a good fit for my niche, period. My number of applications is small, 5 to be precise (and number 5 has just been taken off the table as I got accepted to #3, which is a smaller, less-known program than #4 but a better fit), but I made them all count and tailored each letter and application to the program. I have no idea if it will work beyond the one acceptance I have (still waiting for the other 4), but as Ziggy Marley sings, "I've got to be true to myself."

I would strongly encourage you to start attending conferences that deal with your area and meeting the people that are presenting at them. You might find that some small program in (name obscure place here) has an up and coming faculty that is aligned with your interests and is worth your time and money. Heck, throw a presentation proposal at the conference and maybe add something to your CV and applications. Conferences are a great way to get your name out there and to learn about all the different programs that are out there.

Good luck finding something that fits you!