All frequenters of this forum: some want to be profs, but most want to be authors. Discuss.

[Two Espressos]

a good deal of successful writers of any era are "goddamn awful."

Of course.

but your line of thinking is odd to me. the act of creative writing in itself =/= creative writing programs, even in our heyday of MFA programs. and the creative writing program at your one school =/= all, or even most, creative writing programs. especially if the program at your school does not have the funds or presence to attract the best writers.

My disinterest in creative writing as an act in itself is not causative of my dislike of creative writing programs (or my school's creative writing program), or the obverse. I can't really say why I no longer write creatively, probably because I never was really good at it and it was just a coping mechanism for me, haha. I think my school's creative writing program blows, but of course it's not indicative of creative writing programs across the nation. Hence why I characterized this as an "undue" dislike of creative writing programs.

your "hell no" reaction is also odd, as if you'd rather be a leper than a contemporary writer (and only two years post-passion)…because some writers at your school are bad?

That's a pretty harsh characterization. The "hell no" reaction was because I'm not interested in pursuing creative writing anymore whatsoever. And of course it has nothing to do with the bad creative writing program at my school; I don't see how you inferred that from my post?

[Sparrowing]

Any law school drop-outs here? I meet a few who've returned to the fold after discovering they just don't have the guts for a successful law career. At one point I came close to enrolling in a law program, and the reactions I got from the average person were so much more positive than the ones I now get, as a PhD admit. I try not to care, but truthfully I do, a little.

Edited April 19, 2012 by Sparrowing

[losingeffingmarbles]

I just want my kids back.

[bdon19]

In response to some of the points brought up by Two Espressos, I want to voice an opinion of mine that I wish I had more clearly formulated and been able to articulate pre-applying to grad school. Recently, I've been working on a project for my English major capstone course that takes up questions about the future of the novel. I have been discovering more and more that my (admittedly amateur) training in creative writing has prepared me to a huge extent to talk about a number of issues related to both the contemporary novel as well as the novel more generally throughout its history that I never would have gotten through my strictly literary education. I had the opportunity to attend the AWP (Association of Writers & Writing Programs) conference a few months ago, and the experiences I've had with people who are active writers has really allowed me to open myself up to looking at literature outside strictly a theoretical or scholarly lens. I never in a thousand years would want to attend an MFA program (nor would my writing be up to par anyway), but learning the kinds of things that an MFA program teaches and participating in writing workshops has really expanded my views on the field of literature more generally.

[poeteer]

fair enough! it's just that the trajectory of your post went like this: "absolutely hell no, I don't want to be a writer -- I hate creative writing programs, mainly because the writers at my school suck." it links the ideas, even unintentionally. regardless I just find MFA-hate annoying so maybe I'm a little sensitive.

[asdf111]

Any law school drop-outs here? I meet a few who've returned to the fold after discovering they just don't have the guts for a successful law career. At one point I came close to enrolling in a law program, and the reactions I got from the average person were so much more positive than the ones I now get, as a PhD admit. I try not to care, but truthfully I do, a little.

I dropped out in second year. I'd advise people against law school unless they're committed to entering the legal profession. With the job climate the way it is (especially in the US), it's going to be a losing bet for most people.

OP: Becoming a lawyer (or a literary critic, for that matter) is an intensive, full-time pursuit. Unless you specifically want to work as an attorney, I'd recommend against "crapping out" into law school. Either get into a funded MFA program or find a job that will give you time to write.

[rawera]

You said on a different post that this forum is "easy to troll." I used my amazing powers of deduction to conclude that you are, in fact, a troll. And you haven't done much to dissuade me from that stance since.

This forum is INCREDIBLY easy to troll. It amazes me that "serious internet trolls" haven't found this. High stakes, high anxiety, high levels of interposter confidence...yeah, you don't have to be a troll to know trolling potential.

Edited April 19, 2012 by rawera

[ComeBackZinc]

Oh, I don't disagree with you there.

[WendyMoira]

I'm doing it for Santorum alone.

Made my day. This man makes me want to set my hair on fire.

[antecedent]

I want to do it to deny potential law students a spot in academia (get outta my seat, bitch).

[anti]

That's how I considered the CW Ph.D when I was finishing up my MFA. I said I would never get one, made fun of them, etc. I had two fellowship years afterward, and that was wonderful. And now what am I supposed to do? I've had a job for a year and it sucks. I'm 27, still finishing my first book, and I only qualify for crappy adjunct positions. While I'm trying to finish my book and get it out there, I'd rather be a TA/student -- at least that comes with health coverage. As an English Ph.D, you'll see what it's like to be out in the world after your degree in a job market that's still a lottery game for people with accolades and publications galore -- not pretty. MFA graduates who should be on the job market are applying for CW Ph.D programs because they can't find work that's worth it.

edit: also the CW Ph.D program is no longer a "new thing" -- it's not "trying to devalue" the MFA. it's been an option for a long time, but it wasn't popular until recently. The economy -- and humanities cuts across the country -- has done that for the MFA.

This is a very interesting topic. For what it’s worth, I’d like to comment on two things. A. I can totally understand becoming disinterested in CRW after years of being completely obsessed with it as a hobby from childhood. I feel that my MFA program took a lot of my interest in writing creatively out of me, or really, just studying writing in an academic setting, and having to read peers work who had totally different writing interest than my own and also dealing with people who came to MFA program as a “new career” or simply because they had a book idea they thought “would sell”. And I happened to know someone who quit practicing law for this reason. It all just made me lean to the side of more serious scholarship.

However, with all that said, I think people need to understand that not everyone attends MFA programs for the same reasons. I always want to progress into the PhD to have just as strong of a critical publication resume as a creative, but many MFA’s don’t necessarily want to have an academic career and so therefore, the PhD in English w/ Creative Dissertation (there is no such thing as a CRW PhD please note) isn’t for them.

[user_name]

I concentrated in Creative Writing for my undergrad and thought about going back for an MFA for a while. I think there are things you can learn from it, and improvements you could make. (The only place I thought of applying was Syracuse, at that was because I thought George Saunder's philosophy on writing would strengthen where I know my fiction is weak.)

That said, MFAs can (this was at least true about my undergrad) kill creativity and get people to write to a very strict formula where you end up writing things that no one but MFA students enjoy that has nothing substantial. Of course this isn't true for all programs, though.

I still like to imagine myself being a (fiction) writer someday, and might take a workshop on the side, but most of what writing is about is hard to teach. The main benefit I see is the time and guidance for working on something that's already in you.

Edited April 20, 2012 by user_name

[Julianne Pigoon]

Troll post or no, I want to be a prof first and foremost, and channel my creative writing juices into academic creative nonfiction. OKBYE.