is transfer to another school acceptable?

[goodluck]

Now admitted into a so-so school without funding for the first year. Do you think it is OK to take the offer and reapply this fall into a better one? Will this cause trouble for me and irritate faculty here? I'd like to hear advice.

[danmark]

I guess transfer is not that bad. Heard a lot of cases.

[Penelope Higgins]

Transferring is fine. But to improve your chances of admission, you will need to improve your file. Starting a grad program can let you do that in three ways: show that you can do well in grad-level coursework, refine your research ideas, and improve the quality of your letters. All of these will be hard to do when applying next year, since you will have less than a semester to work on them, so many people wait an additional year before applying. Your personal and financial situation, of course, have to be taken into consideration in this decision.

[danmark]

Totally agree. So people always transfer after their qualify exam?

Transferring is fine. But to improve your chances of admission, you will need to improve your file. Starting a grad program can let you do that in three ways: show that you can do well in grad-level coursework, refine your research ideas, and improve the quality of your letters. All of these will be hard to do when applying next year, since you will have less than a semester to work on them, so many people wait an additional year before applying. Your personal and financial situation, of course, have to be taken into consideration in this decision.

[Penelope Higgins]

I wouldn't say always. But in my experience, most transfers happen after a full year of coursework. Often that means losing time since the department you enter will commonly require you to take coursework and exams in their program, but some people find that is a cost worth bearing.

[browneyedgirl]

I know about half a dozen people who've transferred - it's usually a case of 1) advisor leaving the first school or 2) life changing such that being in a different part of the country is better (marriage, etc.) depending on the school, you may have to start over, so you don't want to wait too long to transfer.

that said, in my opinion, you'd want to do this as tactfully as possible. who will be writing your letters? if you want faculty from program 1 to write for program 2, you'll need to build a good relationship with them and not burn it down when you tell them you want to leave. thus, the stronger the reason for leaving (i.e. not "this school is so much worse than these other places"), the better.

also, if you're trying to move to a program regarded as much stronger / selective, I agree with the above comments that you'll need to work on things that are fixable - statement of purpose, etc. the admissions committee at my program tends to be skeptical of people who are already in Ph.D. programs, so don't forget that you'll have to convince them of your reasons for leaving, as well.

[BrunoPuntzJones]

In most cases, transferring is acceptable...In this case, it's pretty easy. I generally advise folks against going in without funding, but if you plan on doing so, applying out again should be expected. Most of the faculty I know are pretty sympathetic to students coming in without funding and I'd be surprised if you got any static from it.

[catchermiscount]

As Penelope said, the big job is improving your file. Generally, this means (1) performing well in your training, and (2) getting good letters from somebody that's seen you at the graduate level. It's really tough to pull that off in a few months' time. It's also quite difficult to get good letters from your current department unless you're leaving for some good reason (e.g. the advisor thing or the family thing or something similar). Obviously these aren't necessary, but they make things easier. My department has about one transfer per cohort, which is probably a bit on the high side. Of them, about half were of the I-lost-my-advisor-at-my-old-department variety. The lack of funding probably makes things a bit easier from a purely political standpoint.

It remains, however, that your biggest job at present is kicking lots of ass in your classes. You won't improve your stock without good graduate performance for at least a year.

Edited April 30, 2012 by currentpsstudent

[danmark]

Do u mean that transferring students will be at a disadvantage against non-transferring students?

As Penelope said, the big job is improving your file. Generally, this means (1) performing well in your training, and (2) getting good letters from somebody that's seen you at the graduate level. It's really tough to pull that off in a few months' time. It's also quite difficult to get good letters from your current department unless you're leaving for some good reason (e.g. the advisor thing or the family thing or something similar). Obviously these aren't necessary, but they make things easier. My department has about one transfer per cohort, which is probably a bit on the high side. Of them, about half were of the I-lost-my-advisor-at-my-old-department variety. The lack of funding probably makes things a bit easier from a purely political standpoint.

It remains, however, that your biggest job at present is kicking lots of ass in your classes. You won't improve your stock without good graduate performance for at least a year.

[brent09]

I am transferring, and here's what I would add:

1. Yes it's possible. You need to impress everyone you come into contact with. Get as much methods training as you can. Work really hard. That means you need to be in your program for a full year before you try to transfer out.

2. Recognize that transfers can be politically sticky. Nothing you can do about it, some committees will look more unfavorably on transferring than others.

3. Be tactful. Don't talk widely about your plans, and don't open up to the faculty until after you've established a good reputation. If you tell your advisor this fall that you plan on transferring in a year, you'll likely struggle to get much mentoring or attention. Play your cards close to the vest.

4. Have a good reason. After all, your current program spent a lot of time and resources on you. If you're going to take that and then go elsewhere to finish, you should at least provide a compelling reason.

It's possible to transfer (I'm going from a ranked ~50 to ~11 program, got into a couple top 10 places). Just own your current program, work hard, and don't discuss the transfer until you're ready to apply and you need letters.

[goodluck]

I am transferring, and here's what I would add:

1. Yes it's possible. You need to impress everyone you come into contact with. Get as much methods training as you can. Work really hard. That means you need to be in your program for a full year before you try to transfer out.

2. Recognize that transfers can be politically sticky. Nothing you can do about it, some committees will look more unfavorably on transferring than others.

3. Be tactful. Don't talk widely about your plans, and don't open up to the faculty until after you've established a good reputation. If you tell your advisor this fall that you plan on transferring in a year, you'll likely struggle to get much mentoring or attention. Play your cards close to the vest.

4. Have a good reason. After all, your current program spent a lot of time and resources on you. If you're going to take that and then go elsewhere to finish, you should at least provide a compelling reason.

It's possible to transfer (I'm going from a ranked ~50 to ~11 program, got into a couple top 10 places). Just own your current program, work hard, and don't discuss the transfer until you're ready to apply and you need letters.

Nice to have your advice. It seems that transferring students are at a disadvantage. Worried.

[Max Power]

if you are unfunded, i don't think anyone at this program you are considering would hold it against you if you applied to transfer, as well as applied for outside funding that could pay for you to stay in their program.

the question then is, what can you do between now and next december that will maximize the improvement on your application. maybe its spending a year as an unfunded student but it might be working somewhere doing some sort of research. you may not get methods training, but you may get a chance to tighten up your research ideas plus you'll be getting paid and won't be going into debt while you try to find your way to a funded position.

[brent09]

Nice to have your advice. It seems that transferring students are at a disadvantage. Worried.

Well -- yes and no. My point is that some people look down on transfers, others don't. I did just fine this season after getting roundly rejected last time. It's perfectly doable. In fact, I would say it's unlikely that you'll be dinged b/c you're transferring. But of course, as you apply to more schools, the odds that ONE of them doesn't want to accept you as a transfer student increases.

Overall, don't be worried. You can pull it off, I'm sure. Just be super awesome in your current program (esp. in methods) and reapply in a year and a half!

[goodluck]

if you are unfunded, i don't think anyone at this program you are considering would hold it against you if you applied to transfer, as well as applied for outside funding that could pay for you to stay in their program.

the question then is, what can you do between now and next december that will maximize the improvement on your application. maybe its spending a year as an unfunded student but it might be working somewhere doing some sort of research. you may not get methods training, but you may get a chance to tighten up your research ideas plus you'll be getting paid and won't be going into debt while you try to find your way to a funded position.

So you mean no funding can justify my transfer? This is an unfunded offer and that's why I want to transfer. My decision between attending the unfunded offer and work depends on whether transferring will make me less competitive compared with other direct applying students.

[Max Power]

So you mean no funding can justify my transfer? This is an unfunded offer and that's why I want to transfer. My decision between attending the unfunded offer and work depends on whether transferring will make me less competitive compared with other direct applying students.

i have no idea about how a committee will read it. but for the school you are considering, you will be perceived and treated very differently if you approach them saying "i like it here, but its difficult being unfunded. if there's no way for you to give me funding, i'm going to apply to outside fellowships and also for transfers to see what type of funding options i can get in the future" than if you approach them saying "i am planning to leave for somewhere better. the end." the former will get you sympathy. the latter will not.

[catchermiscount]

Let's try and be precise here so that any confusion you're facing is minimized.

A lack of funding might be a good justification to transfer.

If you have a good justification, then any potential disadvantages you face as a transfer (whether they exist or not is anybody's guess) may be mitigated. This very much depends on the folks that are reading your file at a given school. At some departments, people may be more sympathetic to transfers than at others.

But your chances are a function of other factors, such as your performance in graduate school. Brent is spot on here: the most important thing is to go to a place and work your ass off. THEN think about transferring.

[kaykaykay]

I transferred after my first year (I applied just after a few months). I did not ask for recommendation from my program and I did not tell anyone there. I was just a very bad fit for the program so it was fairly easy to explain my situation in my appliction and for my recommenders. I guess this was a special case though.

[giacomo]

@brent09 and @kalapocska: If I may, were you guys funded at your first school?

[brent09]

I was, yes. Tuition + stipend + summers. Can't say I would have chosen this path otherwise.

Edit: though I will add this as advice to transfer students: it's expensive, so be frugal and save up. The application process is expensive, plus you'll likely not get funding for the summer between programs. Apartment deposits, rent, moving, et cetera are all expensive when you're living on a grad student stipend. Plan ahead.

Edited May 3, 2012 by brent09

[kaykaykay]

yes tuition+TAship but I did not have summers. It did not come up during the application process . I got better funding when I transfered but it was because I had some good acceptances at hand.