How much does where you attended undergrad matter?

[Tabes]

Hey, all. I'm posting to get some answers and closure on a topic that has been a major source of anxiety for some time now -- how much does the prestige (or lack thereof) of your undergraduate institution matter for graduate admissions?

Some background on me and my field of study: I am an older student (turning 27 in two weeks) attending a small, no-name state college because it was my only financially feasible option. I make decent grades (3.66 -- not stellar, but not awful) and I have gotten to know my professors very well, including an independent study with the dean of my department. I plan on applying for Egyptology masters programs in the fall -- the three I definitely am applying to are Toronto, Memphis and Liverpool. Will a strong writing sample/personal statement and strong letters of recommendation make up for coming from a no-name school, or will the people from the big leagues win every time?

[StephanieJ]

I just graduated from a smaller state school. My future plans include the Fulbright and admission into SPEA at Indiana University-Bloomington, the 2nd best public affairs program.

I'd say that my letters of recommendations, internships, and intensive research background got me into grad school more than where I went. Undergrad is much less important than grad school...

[imonedaful]

I went to two mid-sized non-stellar state universities for my bachelor's and master's and was able to get into a PHD program (all which seem to be competitive). I think your credentials are much more impressive than where they come from. The thing they always say about prestigious universities is that they are really hard to get into, and fairly easy to get out of. Your whole profile will be the determining factor, not just institution names.

[Hillary Emick]

I went to a small state college no one outside my state (and not a heck of a lot of people in it) have ever heard of. I still got a very good offer from a well-ranked program. I think that your GRE scores may be a slightly more important part of your package than if you got the same grades at a better known institution since they will help the ad com see how you fit into the larger undergrad population.

[yoshiko]

Yep just adding to the same testimonies above - went to a state school and got into some of best PhD programs for my field. Experience and letters of rec matter a lot.

[TheFez]

I agree with the above and had the same experience... a low ranked state University and was admitted to all PhDs I applied to.

I agree with Hillary however - do good on your GREs.

But your LORs, prior research and SOP can easily tip the balance for you. Of course programs are competitive - so if your doppleganger has the same credentials and went to Princeton - you lose. But chances are good you will make the cut - get an interview and have a chance to shine.

[abusamra82]

I would say if you're doing Egyptology field experience and time in Egypt would be the most important factor in your application packet.

[victor.s.andrei]

Will a strong writing sample/personal statement and strong letters of recommendation make up for coming from a no-name school, or will the people from the big leagues win every time?

No.

Letters from "the big leagues" that run along the lines of "Oh, I knew this student, blah blah, and he would make a good graduate student..." are worth a lot less than letters from professors, researchers, etc. at "no name" schools that actually show some depth.

That said, depending on the program, your GPA can be weighted by the undergraduate school you attended, especially if the adcom at the graduate school you are applying is familiar with the school.

[jeffster]

People keep agreeing, but just to add to it, you can definitely get into a grad school ranked far above your undergrad school, but it does require stepping things up. A friend of mine did his econ undergrad at a state university ranked in the low 30s nationally, then got into MIT which is generally ranked number 1 in the world for econ. But he did it by getting good grades, building relationships with professors who would stand for him, and doing research.

[Tabes]

I would say if you're doing Egyptology field experience and time in Egypt would be the most important factor in your application packet.

Actually, most people applying for Egyptology MA programs are not expected to have a formal Egyptology background, seeing how only a handful of schools offer undergrad degrees in the field. They are expected, however, to have a strong background in a discipline such as history or anthropology and to have reading mastery of French and/or German.

[TakeruK]

I think coming from a big league school will give you an advantage but not so big that a no-name school student cannot overcome it. For example, someone mentioned weighing your GPA versus the difficulty of your school (as perceived by the admissions committee) -- if you are from a high power school known for tough grades, then your GPA would look much more impressive. If you're from a lesser known school, the admissions committee might not be familiar with average grades in your program so even if your GPA was equal to someone from a known tough undergrad, yours might be weighed less. That is, I don't think there is explicit undervaluing of "no-name" school GPAs, just that the admissions committees don't know the difficulty so you might miss out on potential "boosting" than a student from a known tough program would get.

In addition, letters with depth are much better than generic letters, no matter who writes them. However, again, coming from a "no-name" school means that you miss out on getting the best of both worlds, that is a letter with depth from a super famous prof! But I wouldn't worry too much because these letters are very hard to get (super famous profs are super famous because they are super busy doing stuff and have less time to get to know their students -- generalizing here, of course). Sure, there will be a handful of people who will have the best everything in their application package, and they will get in everywhere, but remember, they can only accept one offer, and when they do, all the other schools will have another spot open!

So, to be realistic, yes, you do have a small disadvantage coming from a no-name school because you won't be able to compete with the top students (less opportunity for big name supervisors etc.) but this is only a tiny effect. A strong enough application will be able to compete with other good students at any other school, big or small.

[Pius Aeneas]

I can say that having good recommendations will help you immensely. All of my letters were excellent, but one of them was written by a Professor Famous in my field with whom I did a considerable about of study, and I am certain that this letter is what helped me a great deal. The school I attended for undergrad isn't spectacular for the field I'm going into, but we have a fair number of influential faculty. So if you can snag stellar (or at least one) letters from well-respected faculty, it will help.

[Usmivka]

I agree with all of the above, but just to play devil's advocate--these are all instances where people rocked at their no-name school and got great recs. So yes, it happens, but that doesn't mean some programs won't weight brand-name when comparing two otherwise equally qualified applicants.

My program at MIT (wrong field, may be nothing in common) has a really, really strong bent towards accepting undergrads from Ivy's or brand name schools. I think only 3/11 in my sub-department did not come from an Ivy or similarly branded school (and 4/11 came from the same Ivy school), and the stats are even worse for the whole department, on the order of 6-8% non brand-name. Expand that out to several years of admits and I think the stats get even bleaker, like 4-5% from state schools. My classmates are all great students, but I know equal caliber students who went to state schools and did not get into this program (but different years, so not directly comparable).

I think the biggest factor though, that outweighs everything else, is to come in with funding. Even folks who were not admitted originally are sometimes retroactively admitted if they get an NSF fellowship or something similar. In your field, maybe NEH? Just being able to say you've applied during the application puts you above someone otherwise equal who did not put in the effort to apply, because at least you have a shot at bringing in money, and will likely have an even better chance next year if you don't get it this year.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Usmivka

[Sigaba]

Will a strong writing sample/personal statement and strong letters of recommendation make up for coming from a no-name school, or will the people from the big leagues win every time?

@Tabes--

There are too many variables to give a definitive answer. There's nothing to stop members of an admissions committee from sorting through a stack of applications and making the first cut based upon the applicant's UGI or her intended field of study or another criterion.

Focus on what you can control. Try not to think about decisions you cannot change. Submit the strongest application possible. That way, up or down, you'll know you did the best you could under the circumstances.