Need direction choosing CS PhD/MS program (changing majors)

[Madison1]

Hey,

I really would appreciate some advice as my situation is a little complicated. I have a strong occupational background in computer science having worked in corporate web department's before and after I got my Bachelor of Psychology (3.4 GPA).

I went down the psych path further and enrolled in a Counseling Master's program which I would graduate next May (3.7 GPA, 40 credits earned). 1 year ago I developed a strong visual disability that made me reconsider my career. I can see a screen just fine but I can't counsel people 1 on 1 effectively anymore.

I've also had a Graduate Assistantship the last year so no money was lost. I now want to pursuit a career in computer science, and hope to get into a PhD program, preferably online. What are my chances? I understand I have had almost no math courses (other than problem solving with computers - A, and statistics - .

My goal will be to teach computer science or technology classes. I do not plan on being a software engineer, network administrator, etc. -- my job as GA has opened my eyes to what I really want to do: be a CS professor. I have a lot of knowledge and experience as stated above, but since I neither have a Master's nor a Bachelor in CS, I'm wondering if I can get into a PhD program that would allow me to be competitive and teach eventually. I know there are other PhD programs in "Educational Technology" etc., I am open to suggestions if they would make me competitive on the job market for community colleges or 4-year colleges.

To further weaken my case, here are my 3 year old GRE scores, keep in mind that I did not study for the quant section because I was applying to a counseling program (biggest mistake ever): Verbal 420, Quant 510, Analytical 4.5. I could retake and do much better.

Thanks so much in advance,

Madison

[jjsakurai]

Since your goal is to eventually teach CS at a college level, I'm not sure whether a PhD would be worthwhile. A PhD is basically a degree in research. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with the best way to become competitive for a teaching job (though I believe several community colleges are fine if you just have an MS and not a PhD)

If you do decide to go for a PhD though, then I've the following recommendations -

1) Taking the GRE again and getting 780+ on the Math section

2) Applying for a Masters (ideally atleast a 2-year program) and doing research while pursuing it. Alternatively you could also try and start out as a research programmer at a University lab and then gradually start doing some research too. I still feel you'll need a Masters though.

[Madison1]

Thanks for the response, any other suggestions? I would hate to do another MS considering I am almost done with my Mental Health Counseling degree. I would also like to mention that my GA was with the department of Communication Studies and my work activities were mostly computer/technology related.

Again, thank you.

Madison

[jjsakurai]

My best guess would be that it might be possible to get in a PhD program ranked say 75-150 based on your background. Emphasize your CS related skills. The statistics stuff you've done should be helpful. Definitely take the GRE again and get a good score on the Math section. If possible, talk to the CS profs at your current university for advice.

I'm just guessing here though and don't have any concrete knowledge.

[blankslate]

As jjsakurai mentioned already, retake the GRE and get a good quant score.

What Computer Science courses have you taken, if any? Schools want PhD students to do good research. In order to do so, a background in the department of interest is a necessity. If you feel this is the right course of action for you, I'd recommend this:

Find a way to spin what you've already done into assets for furthering the research interests of the schools you're applying to. What was it exactly that made you want to become a Computer Science professor? If the reason is because you worked at a company and thought the work was fascinating, that's not a good answer. If the reason is because you began to develop a real passion for some aspect of what you were doing (related to Computer Science) and your background in Psychology and Counseling have the potential to act as supports in that regard, then that's the right direction. You want what you've done in the past to (at least sound like it will) help make you a better Computer Science researcher in your area of interest. Psychology can certainly be an asset in some areas of Computer Science (e.g. HCI).

Schools will be skeptical that you have the requisite background to complete graduate work in Computer Science. You should justify why their worries are unfounded (what programs have you created, what rigorous analytical classes have you taken, what have you done that proves you can switch into this field successfully). Your work will be two-fold in both shoring up perceived weaknesses and presenting your background as strengths.

There are a number of free online Computer Science classes being offered by Stanford/Princeton/MIT etc. You may want to look into these as a way of both gauging your own capabilities and as evidence to schools that you're able to get through the material successfully.

Good luck.

[Pauli]

Based on what what you described in your original post, I wouldn't recommend that you pursuing a PhD in computer science.

[Madison1]

And why not? Also, are there respectable online PhD's or MS in CS?

Again, thank you guys.

Madison

[Pauli]

And why not?

In your original post, you said that you wanted to be a CS professor. To be a CS professor, you need to have a PhD degree in CS. To get a PhD degree in CS, you usually would need to at least pass a qualifying exam, preliminary exam, and write a contributing dissertation. To do so without a bachelor's degree in CS or without spending an additional couple years of catching up on prerequisite courses before actually starting CS graduate courses is pretty much impossible.

When you said CS professor, did you mean CS lecturer? CS professors are actual scientists whom perform research, CS lecturers teach courses that usually cover courses related to technology such as what you describe in your original post. The former requires at least a PhD and goes through the more vigorous route, the latter requires at most a Master's and doesn't.

[blankslate]

Follow your gut instinct. If this is your passion, don't give a shit about what anyone says and go for it. Just be prepared to sacrifice for it.

[emmm]

He said he wanted to teach at the CC level - for which a master's would be fine - and it could probably be a master's in CS or even Information Science. JHU has some online programs in things like bioinformatics and computer science.

http://ep.jhu.edu/online-degrees

[Pauli]

Follow your gut instinct. If this is your passion, don't give a shit about what anyone says and go for it. Just be prepared to sacrifice for it.

The original poster wanted an honest opinion. I provided one; you're giving false hope. There's passion and then there's realism; and the original poster really isn't qualified to do a PhD in CS. But Master's is doable and better fits the criteria.

He said he wanted to teach at the CC level - for which a master's would be fine - and it could probably be a master's in CS or even Information Science.

I agree. This is very sound advice.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Pauli

[blankslate]

The original poster wanted an honest opinion. I provided one; you're giving false hope. There's passion and then there's realism; and the original poster really isn't qualified to do a PhD in CS. But Master's is doable and better fits the criteria.

I disagree. In my first post I make several points which help the OP make a realistic assessment of his/her abilities, as well as how his/her existing background can play a positive role in the application process. Psychologists can and do find a place in Computer Science departments. As I mentioned, one of the OP's main tasks will be to shore up his/her weaknesses, which may involve gauging his/her abilities and taking additional courses.

In the end, it comes down to the OP and his/her self-determination in this regard. This isn't false hope, this is a belief that the OP can do a PhD in CS at a lesser known school if the OP's lack of background is dealt with appropriately. Don't let your lack of imagination prevent others from at least trying to pursue their beliefs.

[Pauli]

In the end, it comes down to the OP and his/her self-determination in this regard. This isn't false hope, this is a belief that the OP can do a PhD in CS at a lesser known school if the OP's lack of background is dealt with appropriately.

The CS qualifying exams and preliminary exams will disagree with everything you said if the OP goes the PhD route, even at weaker programs. PhD candidates in CS -- regardless of specialization -- will be expected to be prepared to correctly answer a wide variety of possible questions from core topics such as "what is a red/black tree" or "define a n*log n sorting algorithm" or "what is the difference between P vs. NP". That doesn't even cover area research topics. Those type of questions do require a bachelor's degree or at least a couple years of catching up for the OP. That's not a pessimistic view, that's a realistic one. Unless the OP decides to sacrifice two years to build up the fundamentals or decides to pursue a Bachelor's in CS prior to going for a PhD, the Master's route is the best scenario.

Don't let your lack of imagination prevent others from at least trying to pursue their beliefs.

There we go again with the false hope and after-school special talk. People with stronger academic backgrounds in related engineering and hard (i.., as opposed to soft, not as opposed to easy) science disciplines have burned out pursuing CS PhD work. You're seriously just dishing out bad advice now.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Pauli

[Madison1]

I agree that my experience is mostly practical. I've had 3 different IT jobs as stated in the OP and programmed in HTML/CSS/JAVA and some PHP. But all my experience is non-academic other than two statistic courses and problem solving with computers in undergrad. Doing well on the GRE's, I could probably get into a respectable MS program, and this might be the best route. Could someone explain to me the difference of MS in CS vs. IT? I imagine IT encompasses broader technology and includes less programming? If you can reference a good resource I would be happy to read up. Sorry for the amount of questions I have.

What is the job outlook MS IT vs. CS? I have the feeling the CS is stronger and more specific? After all it is usually much better to be a specialist than a generalist from my experience in the IT world.

Thanks again.

[Madison1]

Also, I would probably prefer an online degree as this frees up so much time, and I find it fitting for a CS program. An accelerated one would be even better. There is also the chance of doing something in web development specifically, but what I want to avoid the most is to get a weak degree as I explainded in the opening post, my MS in counseling was one of the worst mistakes ever.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Madison1

[Pauli]

What is the job outlook MS IT vs. CS? I have the feeling the CS is stronger and more specific? After all it is usually much better to be a specialist than a generalist from my experience in the IT world.

One of my professors once said that as long as there are computers, there will always be a need for people with advanced degrees in computer-related degrees (e.g., IT vs CS). And the specialist vs. generalist thing, IMO the generalist route gives you much more flexibility in the types of jobs available, while the specialist route would make you a stronger job candidate. Someone else in the forum might have a different take on this though.

If you're interested in going the CS lecturer route, the best instructors I had in my CS program for my intro CS courses had Master's degrees in either IT or CS.

[victor.s.andrei]

I agree that my experience is mostly practical. I've had 3 different IT jobs as stated in the OP and programmed in HTML/CSS/JAVA and some PHP. But all my experience is non-academic other than two statistic courses and problem solving with computers in undergrad.

Programming is no substitute for rigorous courses in discrete mathematics, algorithms, data structures, computation theory, computer architecture, operating systems, computer networks, and the like. Most schools also look for mathematics courses like calculus, linear algebra, and probability.

As other posters mentioned, you are going to need the requisite background before going into any sort of graduate degree in computer science. In your case, there is only one real way to get that background, and it involves taking anywhere from six to ten undergraduate courses at your own expense. Alternatively, you could study on your own and kill the CS GRE, but that's a long shot.

Could someone explain to me the difference of MS in CS vs. IT? I imagine IT encompasses broader technology and includes less programming? If you can reference a good resource I would be happy to read up. Sorry for the amount of questions I have.

Computer science is more or less mathematics with computers. Sure, there's some branches like networks, databases, operating systems, security, etc. that overlap with other disciplines, but when you get to the core of computer science you will find mathematics...and lots of it.

Information technology is more business-ey.

What is the job outlook MS IT vs. CS? I have the feeling the CS is stronger and more specific?

And now we get to the heart of the matter. I'm not entirely sure why you want to get a graduate degree in computer science...is it because of the job prospects? Because if it is, that's a piss poor reason to go into a field that you could end up hating.

After all it is usually much better to be a specialist than a generalist from my experience in the IT world.

Speaking as someone who works in IT and has a CS undergraduate degree, that's not entirely correct. Of course, it's good to have one or two areas in which you are a specialist, but if that's all you do, it's not terribly hard for upper management to outsource your job.

[victor.s.andrei]

And the specialist vs. generalist thing, IMO the generalist route gives you much more flexibility in the types of jobs available, while the specialist route would make you a stronger job candidate. Someone else in the forum might have a different take on this though.

My philosophy is that you need to go deep in one or two areas and go broad everywhere else...that way you can adapt to changing environments.

[victor.s.andrei]

Also, I would probably prefer an online degree as this frees up so much time...

An online degree from where?

[Madison1]

And now we get to the heart of the matter. I'm not entirely sure why you want to get a graduate degree in computer science...is it because of the job prospects? Because if it is, that's a piss poor reason to go into a field that you could end up hating.

Job prospect is definitely not a "piss poor" reason, in fact, for most people the outlook is very important, as it should be for anyone investing money into a MS or even PhD program. To not take this into account in the economy that we live is, frankly, unwise. Obviously I also love working with computers and have done so for about 4 years. I think I explained my reasons sufficiently.

What I am trying to find out are the pros and cons of MS/PhD programs and then the difference between CS and IT. Thank you everyone for the input and advice. Would someone mind listing or refering me to respectable CS/IT online programs on the Master's level?

Again, thanks!

Edited June 14, 2012 by Madison1

[Madison1]

What do you guys think about this program: http://www.capella.edu/schools_programs/business_technology/phd/information_technology_education.aspx ? I know this would be "down the road", an MS is required but it could be a long term goal and relates to what I have expressed in the OP.

[victor.s.andrei]

Obviously I also love working with computers and have done so for about 4 years. I think I explained my reasons sufficiently.

Merely "working with computers" does not prepare one for a computer science degree.

Would someone mind listing or refering me to respectable CS/IT online programs on the Master's level?

The University of Illinois system, as well as Colorado State University, have online programs in computer science. However, they still require at least some subset of the prerequisites that I listed way back in post 17.

[victor.s.andrei]

What do you guys think about this program: http://www.capella.e..._education.aspx ? I know this would be "down the road", an MS is required but it could be a long term goal and relates to what I have expressed in the OP.

A couple of things...

1. There is no need to get a Ph.D. unless you want to become a professor. In the academic world, usually you do not stay a professor for very long if you can not do research.

2. Having a master's degree is generally sufficient to teach at most community colleges and to work as an adjunct or instructor at many four-year schools. However, you're going to have a hard time getting a job with brick-and-mortar schools, namely, community colleges and four-year schools, (your goal, as stated in post 1) if you go the for-profit online degree route. In the academic world, where you attended school counts, and there is a significant bias in favor of brick-and-mortar non-profit schools.

3. Keep in mind that community colleges are public institutions that are subject to government funding. Same thing goes for most four-year non-profit schools. Most community colleges are overloaded with students right now since they are often less expensive (due to heavy government subsidies) than their four-year non-profit counterparts, and both community colleges and four-year non-profit institutions are looking for ways to cut costs...like the paycheck associated with your intended job.

[emmm]

I would also recommend avoiding the for-profit school route. They are not generally well-regarded.