PHD applications after only four months of master's...

[canteaus]

This fall, I'll start my master's program in history at a top-20 school.

Even though I haven't even started graduate school, I'm already starting to thinking about my application to PHD programs.

The problem is that my MA program is only one year, so if I want to go straight into a phd, I have to start my applications only four months into my master's program!

This time, I want to get into a top-10 school (I'm thinking either Oxford or Berkeley..etc).

What do I need to do to stay competitive?

...Is it important to have published something by the time you apply for a PHD?

I haven't come close to publishing anything yet (and probably won't during my 1-year thesis-based master's program...)

I also don't have much research experience (outside of undergrad).

Am I rushing into a PHD? I'm only 22. I know a PHD is a BIG commitment but I'm pretty sure it's what I want to do.

Edited May 29, 2012 by canteaus

[Dal PhDer]

A one year MA program, is it not project/research based? Do you need to do a big independent research project? Or is it mostly course base?

Why do you want to do a PhD? Have you had a lot of experience doing research? Either independently or as an RA?

I don't know a whole lot about fast tracking, but I might consider looking into a combined MA/PhD program at your current school. I know a few students who have done this, and I think it's a great approach. You cut down on time, you get to expand on your MA/MSc work, and it's a really quick and easy transition.

On a side note, I know a few students who went into their Master's 100% sure that they wanted to do their PhD. Unfortunately, after they experienced graduate school and research, they decided that it wasn't for them. So to make sure you're fully going to enjoy (as much as anyone can!) a PhD, I would make sure you experience grad school and more importantly- doing research.

[surefire]

hey canteaus!

Congrats on your entrance into the 1-year MA! I did one of these myself (in a different department), and you have to be very disciplined and a little crazy to make it through.

There were people from my cohort who applied while still in the midst of the MA (that is, as you say, 4-ish months in). A few of these people were successful; the easier acceptances/transitions seemed to be with those who were shifting to the PhD but staying within the departmart or institution in which they were getting the MA, so it might be a little tricky since you're going elsewhere...

I didn't take this route (it will have been a 2 year break between my MA and PhD when I start the latter this September), and I feel good about that decision. I feel more secure in my PhD commitment because of it - and not because I wasn't pretty sure, during the MA, that I wanted to do the PhD (I was!), but rather because I was better able to articulate my place in academia, my goals and my research interests after the MA. I found it best to be able to reflect on MA projects after the fact, to make sense of them in my academic narrative, rather than trying to predict where they were going to end up.

Anyway, I have a few concerns for you:

- First, you should be aware of the time crunch that you will be under. I'm sure that you have considered that you will have little to no break between the MA/PhD, but consider this, there may be A BIT OF OVERLAP between the two. For my one-year MA, I started in September and I was finished all of my technical requirements by mid-August of the next year. However, I was still doing paperwork and tying up loose ends into SEPTEMBER to make sure that I had all of my required signatures and red tape, and then I didn't convocate until MID-OCTOBER! If I had had to start a PhD on top of that...(shivers). Just know what you are getting into and what you are prepared to do.

- the publishing pressure varies across disciplines. In mine, there was little expectation that you had something done on your way out of the MA. I never really worried about it and spent my time on other things that would boost my profile and experience (TA and RA-ships, lots of conferences, an MA thesis). I can't speak to history though.

- Remember that schools outside of Canada don't necessarily requisite an MA, so expectations re: experience/age are also varied.

- I think that it might be tough to wrangle a great LOR after only 4 months, but it would also look odd if you didn't have an LOR from someone involved in your MA! This can be a tricky obstacle! Same goes for your writing sample, which should be an example of "your best work", and you should be outperforming your undergrad self at the MA level (and thus using MA-level work for your sample), though imposter's syndrome will ensure that you don't FEEL like you are doing good work right away...

- I don't really understand the thesis-aversion. I really think that, to be competitive and get a taste of PhD expectations, you would have to do the thesis. As well, your MA thesis supervisor would prove to be a go-to resource for LORs, advice, opportunities and networking (all important for PhD apps). In my MA, with the thesis, I had to secure a supervisor by X-mas. If I had been inclined to do the PhD apps, I think that I would have still leaned on said supervisor for some advice/an LOR (she could say something with regards to her confidence in my potential and my sound research planning and her high expectations yadayada). I've heard that it looks irregular on PhD apps if your supervisor doesn't have your back!

- with all of this in mind, my general tips for competitiveness would be to do a wide variety of things during your MA, even though you will feel like you don't have time for any of them! Nail down an easy bursary, take a TA-ship, join a low-commitment committee (I applied to a post as student rep for our department's admissions committee, a spot that I secured in October and got to brag about/put on my CV all year although there was no actual work until February). GO TO A CONFERENCE! I presented at my first one in December; you have to be organized to submit abstracts on time, and you will not feel ready at this stage, but they are great experiences and glowing ticks on your CV that you can accomplish in a few prep hours and then one afternoon! As well, you can COMMIT to some during the fall (even if they are not sceduled until the spring or something) and you CAN STILL USE THESE on a PhD app by mentioning that you've had abstracts accepted and are scheduled to speak. And, finally, unless you have a really good reason for doing otherwise, do the thesis option. All of these things show that you have an interest and capacity in not just performing at a high level, but also contributing to the culture and profile of an institution (something that will be very important for the top schools that you are looking at)

Good luck!

Edited May 29, 2012 by surefire

[canteaus]

Dalpher, my MA will be thesis-based. Also, I'm a native of Halifax....HI

Surefire,

WOW, you have provided so much relevant and useful information! Thank you!!

You literally nailed every single major concern that I have about applying to phd programs early.

Your concern about the LORs and sample writing is definitely a big issue...aghhhh

The last thing I want to do is compromise my MA performance... that would really make my phd applications difficult. It's not like I'm some kind of a genius who can breeze through his MA...

Since my MA is only a year (as opposed to the more traditional two-year MA programs), perhaps I can take advantage of the extra-year to gain experience and put together a bullet-proof phd application.

Your advice about reflecting on my MA work after the fact is also very insightful...

*sigh... I will have to think about this a bit longer.

The only thing that's going for me in terms of applying directly to a phd is that schools like LSE and Oxford usually admit all phd admits into the MA program first, and then the phd program a year later...

Edited May 29, 2012 by canteaus

[Nerd_For_Life]

This fall, I'll start my master's program in history at a top-20 school.

Even though I haven't even started graduate school, I'm already starting to thinking about my application to PHD programs.

The problem is that my MA program is only one year, so if I want to go straight into a phd, I have to start my applications only four months into my master's program!

This time, I want to get into a top-10 school (I'm thinking either Oxford or Berkeley..etc).

What do I need to do to stay competitive?

...Is it important to have published something by the time you apply for a PHD?

I haven't come close to publishing anything yet (and probably won't during my 1-year thesis-based master's program...)

I also don't have much research experience (outside of undergrad).

Am I rushing into a PHD? I'm only 22. I know a PHD is a BIG commitment but I'm pretty sure it's what I want to do.

I am in the exact same situation (almost, I'm 24). I'm just finishing a gap year between finishing my undergrad and starting my MA, it's a one-year program at UofT based on a major research paper. I will be applying to PhD programs in the fall with the thought in mind that if I don't get in where I want or the funding is not sufficient that I will reapply the following year (though having already done one gap year I'm not stoked on doing another, though I'm sure the extra research/work time would be great if I can get a relevant job.)

In regards to reference letters, I spoke to my supervisor at UofT and she said that it is common for people to apply who are in this situation and they generally get two of their strong referees from their undergrad and then their current supervisor to write for them. I've contacted my two from undergrad and they are more than happy to write for me.

I've also been advised to get as much stuff together for the applications as possible before classes start in the fall. This means a rough draft of my app to SSHRC for PhD funding and any other funding apps so that they just need to be polished come the fall.

[Dal PhDer]

Wow!! A 1-year research based program.... I am agaga about that! Holy! That's intense!! It took me 1.5 years to defend my thesis proposal, ethics, data collection, analysis, write up, and then defend! I can't imagine doing that in 1 year plus a full course load....I give you guys kudos, because that's amazing!!

I think Surefire gave really great advice. And as nicole mentioned, putting together your PhD app and applying for scholarships can be quite a substantial piece of work...I will say that to my knowledge you can only apply for CIHR and SSHRC AFTER you are excepted to a PhD program, so these massive applications are normally done during the first year of your PhD...that doesn't mean you shouldn't be applying for other scholarships outside of those!

It sounds like you are pretty motivated...I think there is something to be said about having time between degrees, or at least enough time during the degrees to slow down a bit- you don't want to be burnt out...on the otherside, if you're on a roll- that's awesome!

Would your PhD be outside of your MA work? To me, the most logical thing to do would be change your 1-year MA to a combined MA/PhD program (if you can).

Good luck!

Edited May 29, 2012 by Dal PhDer

[booksnlooks]

I'm in the same situation as canteaus, just in economics instead of history. First off, thanks to those who gave advice - huge help! Could someone please give more advice regarding conferences? I'd like to start building up my CV but I don't know the first thing about how to present at a conference or anything related to the process.

[Dal PhDer]

Here are a few suggestions for conferences:

- Did you do an undergraduate honours thesis? If so, submit to several local conferences. I would first try for an oral and then a poster.

- Have you worked on any research projects or have the opportunity for paid RA work? often this work will require you to present (in either poster or oral form) some stage of the work

- Approach your supervisor and say you're looking for opportunities to gain experience presenting at conferences. Sometimes they will send you to a conference to present a poster of their work, or will give you some data to analyze for a poster or oral presentation

- Do you have a proposal for your Masters thesis? Present this work at an in-house conference through your department, university, or even another university/student run conference...with these conferences you are almost always able to snag an oral spot. I would also apply for a poster presentation at large conferences.

Conference attendance often depends on where you're located. If you are at a university in a large city (in Canada this is normally TO, Montreal, Ottawa..etc) you will probably have access to more local conferences without minimal cost. If you have to travel, you can often apply to your department/university for travel awards (each graduate student at my university has $500 allocated to them for travel cost...minimal, but it does help)....also, if your supervisor is in a position to afford to send you, and you are presenting their work, it's a win-win for them...I would suggest going to your supervisor ASAP with a list of conferences you have found that you would like to apply for, and either suggest you submit some of your current/previous work, or ask if they have anything you could present.

[rockandroll]

Hi there- I'm in the EXACT same situation. My MA program is also only a year long (why do they do this?!), and I'll be applying to Ph.D. programs whose applications are due by December of this year. I feel like my heart rate just returned to relatively normal after the MA application season... I can't believe that I have to go through this BS again.

I had applied for master's programs because I didn't know that I was, indeed, qualified for Ph.D. programs after having finished my BA in only two years, and I hadn't yet refined my research interests (which, of course, I did- just after finishing my master's applications). Looking back, I wish that I had been able to figure out my research interests just one semester sooner so that I could have applied to Ph.D. programs as well.

I ended up accepting an offer to go to a great school, and everything is looking wonderful for the MA (all two semesters of it). However, here's my issue: The professor who accepted me was only accepting master's students because he is going on sabbatical next fall (2013) and will probably be retiring soon. The other professors in my department don't match my interests as well. It's a wonderful program and I anticipate really enjoying it from what I've seen so far. However, there are professors at other schools who match my interests PERFECTLY, and I know that in order to really dig into the research that I want to get into, I should seriously consider these other programs.

However, I emailed all of the professors at the schools that I'm considering, and they have ALL said that they won't give me credit for my master's beyond about two classes (out of the eight that I will have taken). So now, on top of the stress of applying to grad school less than a year after I applied to master's programs, I now have to worry about schools not giving me credit for the fact that I already have a master's degree and wanting me to start all over at the beginning of the Ph.D. program. So basically, I might not be getting a head start at all by coming in with part of the degree finished already.

I'm incredibly frustrated and stressed out about this, so I totally sympathize with all of you who are also in one year master's programs. It's such a great idea on some levels, and for those of us who thrive when things are fast-paced, we can totally do it. However, I had no idea that Ph.D. programs wouldn't honor this- not to mention the fact that we'll be applying to these programs before really getting into the meat of our master's degrees. WTF?

[Hank Scorpio]

Surefire had some great advice, as did everyone else.

Thankfully, I was accepted into 1-year MA programs, and 2-year MA programs as well...so I was able to choose which I preferred. I have two close friends who chose the 1 year MA route, and PhD apps (plus funding apps for SSHRC, etc) just about killed them. Soooo, I went with the 2-year option, not just because I wouldn't have to apply for a PhD right away, but because 2 years means more experience on my CV when I apply to a doctoral program (more courses, more research, more conferences, etc.).

Anyway, best of luck with that quick transition. It's good to have to toughen up academically, and will look good on your CV when the time comes to apply for jobs.

[strangepeace]

Thank you everyone for the helpful advice!

I am in a very similar situation, as I will be starting a one-year Masters in Environmental Science and Public Policy this fall (2012) while also applying to PhD programs to start in the fall of 2013. My main research interests are in climate change and security; specifically as they relate to resource shortage and political instability.

Comments on this thread have been great, but I had a couple of additional questions:

-Do you think it would be possible to get 2 recommendations from graduate school professors for PhD applications? Many of the professors I worked with during undergrad have either passed away or retired abroad so I won’t be able to get really strong recommendations for my applications from my undergraduate work. How would I best go about building a relationship with a professor so that they are able to write a strong letter on my behalf? Are undergraduate recommenders preferred over graduate school recommenders?

-While I am definitely planning on applying to the PhD program within my Master’s department, I will also be applying to outside programs. How are 1-year master’s programs perceived by PhD admissions committees? Is there a great disadvantage to the one-year program when compared to applicants who’ve done a two year program?

-How important is conference attendance before applying to PhDs? I have 0 experience with attending/presenting at research conferences so any guidance on this would be appreciated. This is a worry for me, since I am not able to use any material from my professional life (I’m currently a federal contractor and all of my work materials are confidential) and my undergraduate work isn’t really related to the research/field that I’m interested in.

-My program has the option of either writing a thesis or doing an internship in order to fill graduation requirements. The placement for internships looks to be pretty good, with a decent portion of the cohort interning with the UN or with a development firm. However these internships are 1. Unpaid and 2. Don’t end until mid-late August of 2013. Would it be more beneficial to write the thesis or to pursue the internship?

Thank you all in advance!