Name Dropping in SOP

[rems]

So, I'm aware that there are numerous posts out there about this topic because I've read them, but I thought it might be beneficial for us 2013 applicants to have the short and easy answer to the following:

2012 or before applicants: Did you name drop POI's in your SOP? If you did, did you contact them first? If you didn't, do you think this effected your SOP in anyway for the better or for the worst?

Oh, and of course any advice in general regarding this topic from personal experience would be much appreciated.

Thank you!

[eng23]

Hi,

It's better to do it than not to do it. In other words, it certainly won't hurt you to list professors you'd like to work with, so long as you seem genuine about your interest in those scholars, but it can hurt you to not list them. Some schools don't mind one way or the other. Other schools will evaluate your application lower because of it. A DGS from a top 20 school, a school I was in the final pool for admittance (but ultimately didn't get into), called me personally to talk about my application. The ONLY reason he said I did not get in was because I was missing a paragraph from my personal statement about which professors I would want to work with there. Ultimately, when it comes down to those last 30 people and the school can only fund 12, every last detail about your application WILL matter. The rest of the personal statement, my writing sample, GREs, CV, undergrad record, etc... were all considered excellent. For what it's worth, when I explained to the DGS that I was actually TOLD by a professor of mind from undergrad that including that list didn't matter at all, that DGS said I should have called to ask if his school preferred the list of professors. Go with the list, but don't make it overwhelm your personal statement.

[TakeruK]

I'm in the physical sciences but I think one point I can contribute is applicable across disciplines. Make sure you know the person you are name dropping is actually going to take students next year. The best way to do this is to send a quick email to each POI before you apply to let them know that you are interested in their work, that you will be applying to their school, and just asking if they will be taking students from the 2013-2014 cohort. And try to mention more than 1 name so that it doesn't seem like all your eggs are in one basket basically. The idea is to show that your interests fits in with those of the department.

[slvitale]

It's funny: I had my advisor--who is a Graduate director--read my SOP and he recognized--knew quite well, in fact--one of the professors I mentioned. He seemed to think mentioning potential advisors was a good idea.

[pinkrobot]

I'm in the physical sciences but I think one point I can contribute is applicable across disciplines. Make sure you know the person you are name dropping is actually going to take students next year. The best way to do this is to send a quick email to each POI before you apply to let them know that you are interested in their work, that you will be applying to their school, and just asking if they will be taking students from the 2013-2014 cohort.

Hmm. This actually isn't applicable across disciplines: I heard from a lot of people that, in English, full departments--not necessarily individual professors--accept students. And there are a million debates about whether contacting a professor ahead of time is even a good idea. For what it's worth, I did not contact the professors I mentioned.

This, though, lines up with what I heard (and what I did) for English:

And try to mention more than 1 name so that it doesn't seem like all your eggs are in one basket basically. The idea is to show that your interests fits in with those of the department.

Yes, I mentioned professors in my statements. But, like TakeruK says, I actually didn't think of it as name-dropping: what I wanted to do was tell the departments about some things that their professors are doing that really inspire me. I didn't think about it as trying to get anyone's attention, but rather as illustrating my rationale for why I thought I was a good fit for the school; also, I didn't think about it as referencing a professor, but rather as referencing a professor's work. Yes, I think these mentions made my statement stronger: they comprised the vast majority of each fit paragraph.

[TakeruK]

Hmm. This actually isn't applicable across disciplines: I heard from a lot of people that, in English, full departments--not necessarily individual professors--accept students. And there are a million debates about whether contacting a professor ahead of time is even a good idea. For what it's worth, I did not contact the professors I mentioned.

I think in general, science students are also accepted into full departments as well, not by individual profs. But I guess the difference may be then that in the sciences, although you're not committed to any particular advisor upon admittance, it's something the department keeps in mind when selecting candidates. So, if you express a strong desire to work with Prof X, and Prof. X is known to the department as someone who is going to be leaving soon, then it could hurt your chances to showing that you will "fit" in well. In addition, sometimes research websites are out of date -- I try to email POIs to ensure that they really are still interested in what the websites say. For example, if I am interested in Prof. Y because Prof. Y is that institution's lead scientist on Project Z, and I mention that I want to be involved in Project Z in the SOP but it turns out that Prof. Y is leaving Project Z then that could also be a bad thing!

In essence, in the sciences, I think it's important to make sure you maximize your ability to demonstrate how well you fit in their department by making sure the names you mention actually do fit what you are describing in your SOP. I thought that part would be applicable to other fields too since it didn't seem like a science-only thing. And, the "kisses of death" article (written by psychology faculty) about the SOP mentioned the same thing, basically. But, it's true that in the sciences, it's a debate whether or not to contact profs beforehand. About 1/3 of my contacted POIs decided to ignore my emails (or was too busy to respond), and 1/3 of them just gave polite but short replies (e.g. Thank you for contacting me. Yes, I will be taking students, please do submit an application and we can discuss it after the decisions are made.). But the last 1/3 gave detailed responses and we were able to have a good conversation that helped me during the application process!

[Stately Plump]

I'm in the physical sciences but I think one point I can contribute is applicable across disciplines. Make sure you know the person you are name dropping is actually going to take students next year. The best way to do this is to send a quick email to each POI before you apply to let them know that you are interested in their work, that you will be applying to their school, and just asking if they will be taking students from the 2013-2014 cohort. And try to mention more than 1 name so that it doesn't seem like all your eggs are in one basket basically. The idea is to show that your interests fits in with those of the department.

Hmm. This actually isn't applicable across disciplines: I heard from a lot of people that, in English, full departments--not necessarily individual professors--accept students. And there are a million debates about whether contacting a professor ahead of time is even a good idea. For what it's worth, I did not contact the professors I mentioned.

It actually might not be a bad idea to contact the prof first. The professor, in an English department, will not "accept" a student on her own, but if that professor is already advising 5-6 students, and you mention her in your personal statement, you might be rejected because your POI doesn't really have any more room. Also, you might mention that you are interested in working with Prof X, but not realize that Prof X is taking the year off; in this case, you would almost definitely hurt your application because you would look naive and under-informed.

Incidentally, I didn't contact any of the profs I mentioned, but if I could go back, I might have. I've found that more often than not, professors that I've since been in contact with have been more than willing to help whenever and wherever possible, something I wish I'd taken advantage of during my application season.

[pinkrobot]

I think there was a thread earlier this year where someone set up a poll to ask who spoke to professors ahead of time, who didn't, and what their results were. I think that thread showed that there didn't seem to be much correlation between the categories; relatedly, I also personally know a lot of people who didn't contact professors and wouldn't change a thing about their choice, and a lot of people who did contact professors and wouldn't change a thing about their choice, and a lot of people who did one or the other and wishes they'd done the other one. Probably this is up to each person and has a lot more to do with how someone approaches a professor than if someone approaches a professor. Likely it wouldn't hurt for each person to ask their advisors for more individual guidance.

In essence, in the sciences, I think it's important to make sure you maximize your ability to demonstrate how well you fit in their department by making sure the names you mention actually do fit what you are describing in your SOP. I thought that part would be applicable to other fields too since it didn't seem like a science-only thing. And, the "kisses of death" article (written by psychology faculty) about the SOP mentioned the same thing, basically. But, it's true that in the sciences, it's a debate whether or not to contact profs beforehand. About 1/3 of my contacted POIs decided to ignore my emails (or was too busy to respond), and 1/3 of them just gave polite but short replies (e.g. Thank you for contacting me. Yes, I will be taking students, please do submit an application and we can discuss it after the decisions are made.). But the last 1/3 gave detailed responses and we were able to have a good conversation that helped me during the application process!

This is a good point, and most likely really, really true for English as well. I did keep this in mind when I mentioned professors in my statement. But I tried to cobble together an understanding of what the professors are currently working on or have worked on somewhat recently through their CVs (especially recent conference presentations or recent publications), courses they most recently taught, and their published articles and books. All of these have their strengths and weaknesses as far as currentness of information goes (CVs may not be updated; a professor may have taught one course or another for a reason that doesn't have to do with their own research interests; articles and books take a long time to come out, so may not reflect current interests), but it seemed to work well enough. And I just didn't want to risk contacting professors, especially since my advisers advised against it (not to mention, I was really nervous about it!).

All that being said ... although what I mention in the previous paragraph made a lot of sense to me when applying and makes sense to me still, I actually think that having a super accurate sense of a professor's interests is perhaps a bit less important than we might think. This is all conjecture and I might be completely nuts; my impression, however, comes from one school to which I applied, thinking (after a TON of reading) that one professor there would be a really good fit. (Actually, I put the school on my list a few years ago, immediately after reading one of this professor's books.) I was accepted, but the professor I had in mind had actually just left the university. (Oops.) While I did mention other professors too, with a genuine interest in their work, I would have previously thought that my uninformedness about this professor would have hurt my candidacy and the absence of that professor would have decreased my fit. So while I would never say that the research isn't important, and I know everyone emphasizes fit and I think it's really important for us to do our part in trying to figure out the fit, I think it might be helpful to know that it is okay--and, actually, perfectly logical, acceptable, and the basis of the entire reason that we're applying to school in the first place whereas the professors have already done this and then some--that we know much less than the professors in the departments.

Also, you might mention that you are interested in working with Prof X, but not realize that Prof X is taking the year off; in this case, you would almost definitely hurt your application because you would look naive and under-informed.

See, similarly, I'm not entirely sure about this either. I would have totally agreed with you before I'd gone through this round of applications, and in general, I still think (as I say above) that we should definitely do all the research we possibly can. But, you know, a part of me wonders ... these degrees are five-plus years long, and the first two years (for those of us entering with BAs, at least) are coursework. Would it really wound an application to mention a professor who will not be there during your first year but will be--and may well be open to advisees--in your last four or more years?

I also previously would have thought that it would be a really bad call to reference a professor who is not at the school during the year that your application is being read--but during the interviews of one of the schools to which I applied, I know that professors who were not on campus still conducted interviews with applicants over Skype.

My sense is that this process is a little more holistic than I had previously thought. There are probably many things involved--not just a consideration of the upcoming year, but a consideration of the upcoming five years; not just a consideration of number of advisees, but a consideration of establishing a balanced incoming cohort; probably a million other things, too--that we can't anticipate. I guess what I'm saying here is that there seem to be no hard and fast rules, except that I would suggest that an applicant do their due diligence to the best of his/her capability and work as hard as he/she can on his/her materials. One person's experience will probably not help another person all that much, which isn't to say that this conversation is pointless (I don't think it is! I like all you guys and I think you all have great points! ), but rather to say that you can probably take some comfort knowing that no matter what you do (within the limits of reason, obviously), your candidacy probably has a lot to do with stuff we don't even know about, so just do your best, and listen to your gut as well as the advice of people you trust.

Edited August 11, 2012 by pinkrobot

[TakeruK]

Well said, pinkrobot! I agree that the right thing to do for each person (whether or not to contact profs ahead of time) really depends on each case and how they go about doing it. It seems like everyone has a different opinion (students and faculty alike) so it's likely that this also depends on who is sitting on the admissions committee, which could change from year to year so it makes the whole thing a crapshoot I guess! Definitely the best advice is to seek guidance from those you trust (e.g. a mentor or advisor) and do what feels comfortable to you. If it feels super awkward to talk to a prof, there's a good chance that the conversation could go badly anyways

It's good to see different viewpoints about contacting profs from different experiences! At least I think we all agree on the answer to OP's first question -- yes, naming profs is a good idea!

[1Q84]

Yeah, I guess pinkrobot nailed it. What shall be, shall be.

My 0.02 on contacting professors, however: although some have been rude and some have not answered, the ones that have answered have been so incredibly kind (speaking to me about individual interests, etc.) even though they said that they were busy, they still took time to send lots of encouragement and positive, kind words. One of the top scholars in my field and former chair was so nice to me and even complimented my alma mater and said she would "keep an eye out for my application"! It's stuff like that that gets me through all this. So, I think despite the risk of running into some ornery profs or perhaps possibly pissing some off, I'm all for contacting professors if not just for the uplifting moments or the morale boost it can sometimes have. I know that I surely need it!

Edited August 11, 2012 by ponponpon

[Stately Plump]

See, similarly, I'm not entirely sure about this either. I would have totally agreed with you before I'd gone through this round of applications, and in general, I still think (as I say above) that we should definitely do all the research we possibly can. But, you know, a part of me wonders ... these degrees are five-plus years long, and the first two years (for those of us entering with BAs, at least) are coursework. Would it really wound an application to mention a professor who will not be there during your first year but will be--and may well be open to advisees--in your last four or more years?

I definitely agree that there are millions of little things that go into the decisions, and a POI mentioned in a statement may or may not be one of them. I also agree that if an advisor does not currently have openings, but may have openings in the future, you would probably be fine. My concern, however, is that there are sooo many applicants--and more dauntingly, so many overly-qualified applicants--that mentioning a prof who doesn't really have room for you (even if they will have room for you in a year or two) might be a mark against you. I've spoken with profs on adcomms, and they say that, once it gets down to the last 30-40 kids, and they can only make 15-20 offers, and everyone looks pretty much identical on paper, it comes down to the most minute details.

Like I said, I agree with your post. I just wanted to clarify where I was coming from. And again, mentioning a POI you haven't contacted isn't necessarily a bad thing; I mentioned 2-3 profs per school and didn't contact any of them before hand.

[rems]

Thank you all for your advice! I very much appreciate it!

I did an overall google search on this topic and I found a blog post (stupid I didn't mark it or else I would post it here -- sorry for that lack of foresight!) stating that if you don't have anything substantial to say to a POI in an email you shouldn't send it or waste their time. By "substantial," the poster meant you've read their work or worked specifically with it.

Example: "(blahblahblahpoliteintro). I used your work, "Awesome book/article," substanitally in my MA thesis. I was very interested in your concepts/ideas/questions/etc. regarding X. Are you still working in this field? BLAHBLAHBLAH."

Short of that (and lets be honest that that was a pretty hastily written example by me), you shouldn't bother. Here's an idea: 10 years ago you couldn't "google" profs or look them up in JSTOR, so you had to call them/ sent them a letter/ contact the secretary/ show up and beg in order to get information about them and/or their department. But now we can look it all up online so I wonder (and this is pure speculation) if the days of contacting POI's short of having something very specific to ask them is considered old-school and unnecessary? Like, "why didn't you just look up my CV? It's posted online."

Repeat: PURE speculation. It's probably still a better idea than not to contact POI's, just in case. An email never hurt anyone... Except for us who sit here and wonder why we haven't gotten a response.

I think listing POI's in the SOP is important to show that you have done your homework, and that there are profs there who work in areas you find interesting. For example, I work with James Joyce so why would I apply to a school without a Joycean? If I list a Joycean or two in my SOP that seem interesting, it demonstrates that I have at least looked at their faculty and found someone who reads what I want to read.

Why am I repeating what has already been said much better, I might add, above this response? Because I'm putting off writing my SOP at this very moment.

Thank you again for your all your help!

[Stately Plump]

Why am I repeating what has already been said much better, I might add, above this response? Because I'm putting off writing my SOP at this very moment.

Ah. You have discovered the true purposefunction [sic] of the Grad Cafe. Welcome to our fellowship, rems.

[rems]

Ah. You have discovered the true purposefunction [sic] of the Grad Cafe. Welcome to our fellowship, rems.

HAHA Thank you -- I'm glad to be here!