Is #14 the best I can do?

[anon1]

Am I being greedy to apply again this year, or is a top 14 school (UCSD) the best I can do?

They have great professors in theory/algorithms, which is my top interest, as well as great professors in a number of other interesting areas: security, HPC, etc. But, I have this gnawing feeling that I could have done better. Some of my professors even told me this. It's making it hard to feel excited about going to grad school this year Should I take a year off and reapply, or do I not have a chance at a top school / or will risk losing something great?

Here are my stats:

GPA: 3.66, double major (at well regarded school) in CS and math

CS GPA: 3.94

GPA last two years: 3.89 (did degree program in 3 years since I have a previous liberal arts degree)

GRE(assumed--need to retake... last year had 166 verbal, 160 quant, 5.5 writing): 166 verbal, 166-170 quant, 5.5 writing

Have previous degree from liberal arts college in art

Have written ACT math questions for a textbook in all major bookstores

Taught SAT classes in Thailand and in US

Found mistake in national standardized test in high school

Did internships at Harvard, MIT, NASA (all were in astro/aero, but I did CS work)

(also admitted to internships at Princeton, Stanford, Caltech, Harvard--in CS)

Published papers in philosophy, biology, physics, (might get an aerospace engineering pub by the fall)

Run marathons

Have taken 1 graduate level CS class in algorithms, have taken 3 graduate level math classes (linear/nonlinear optimization, numerical mathematics) (As in all grad classes)

Had all A's in CS classes, 2 A+s, and one B+

During my year off (if I don't go to grad school this year) I would continue an internship I worked on last summer

[ponylevel]

A few things:

1. 3.66 overall GPA is low when you're talking about applying to a top CS school.

2. Your GRE quant score is bad.

3. Stuff like "found mistake in national standardized test in high school" doesn't mean shit, and putting something like that on your app makes it look like you're trying too hard.

4. Internships at great schools are not as application-boosting as most people think.

IMO if you re-frame the way you present your qualifications, you could do a little better, but not much. It's your call, follow your gut.

[anon1]

Thanks for the candid assessment ponylevel. The schools I consider worth my effort to apply again are: Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, Harvard (all ranked higher in algorithms/theory than UCSD and all in locations I like >= San Diego). Do you think I have a shot at those schools, specifically?

I definitely see your point about finding the mistake on the test. My essay was filled with stupid minute details that all probably made it sound like I was trying way way wayyy to hard. And I know my GRE quant score sucks. I would retake it (now you only have to send your best score-- not all of your scores) and I'm confident that with studying I would ace it.

So, the application for this year would be better than my application last year (btw my GPA when I applied last year was something like 3.45-- now it's 3.66 and I have an entire extra year of almost perfect grades) in that 1. I have a better GPA, 2. I have a much better personal statement, 3. I have another internship & some work experience, 4. I will have a much better GRE score, 5. I have better recommendations (I believe only 2/4 were great recommendations), 6. I plan to study for and take the CS GRE.

I still lack specifically CS-related research, unless I can find some way to accomplish that during my year off (seems unlikely). And am stuck with my 3.66 GPA.

I admit though-- there are many smarter and more accomplished students in UCSD's PhD program in CS than me: people who have had multiple Google internships, who have graduated with 3.7 & 3.8 from Berkeley, who did actual CS research!, who were top contestants in programming competitions, who were top contestants in academic Olympiads, someone who was the 2nd best in all of Turkey in math, etc. etc............. So I likely wouldn't be giving up more than any of those people did (getting into a better school), by choosing to go to UCSD.

[anon1]

Another way to phrase my initial question: what do I have to lose by reapplying? Do I risk not even getting into a top 14 school, or am I pretty sure to at least do this well again? (Because I also have other personal reasons for not wanting to attend this year.)

[delta16]

I don't think you're being greedy for trying to reapply again. I think it's great that you're trying to reach your fullest potential.

But try not to get so engrossed with applying to "top rank" schools. Ask yourself why you wish to get into these schools. Is it the research? the environment? etc.There are more important factors to consider than the rank. I have a friend who got accepted to MIT, but chose to attend UW instead just because she felt more comfortable with the environment there.

I'm not discouraging you from reapplying, I'm just hoping you are thinking about other factors too

[comp12]

Ugh, anon1 again?

[ponylevel]

Thanks for the candid assessment ponylevel. The schools I consider worth my effort to apply again are: Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, Harvard (all ranked higher in algorithms/theory than UCSD and all in locations I like >= San Diego). Do you think I have a shot at those schools, specifically?

Unfortunately, no.

I definitely see your point about finding the mistake on the test. My essay was filled with stupid minute details that all probably made it sound like I was trying way way wayyy to hard. And I know my GRE quant score sucks. I would retake it (now you only have to send your best score-- not all of your scores) and I'm confident that with studying I would ace it.

So, the application for this year would be better than my application last year (btw my GPA when I applied last year was something like 3.45-- now it's 3.66 and I have an entire extra year of almost perfect grades) in that 1. I have a better GPA, 2. I have a much better personal statement, 3. I have another internship & some work experience, 4. I will have a much better GRE score, 5. I have better recommendations (I believe only 2/4 were great recommendations), 6. I plan to study for and take the CS GRE.

Better recs will help.

I still lack specifically CS-related research, unless I can find some way to accomplish that during my year off (seems unlikely). And am stuck with my 3.66 GPA.

I admit though-- there are many smarter and more accomplished students in UCSD's PhD program in CS than me: people who have had multiple Google internships, who have graduated with 3.7 & 3.8 from Berkeley, who did actual CS research!, who were top contestants in programming competitions, who were top contestants in academic Olympiads, someone who was the 2nd best in all of Turkey in math, etc. etc............. So I likely wouldn't be giving up more than any of those people did (getting into a better school), by choosing to go to UCSD.

IMO if you apply again you'll do as well if not a bit better. The Top 4 are out of your league.

[anon1]

Comp12-- you don't have to read my posts:) just sayin...

[anon1]

Ponylevel-- Thank you again.

If I have no chance at those 4 schools it sounds like it is probably not worth my time to reapply...

Appreciate the help:)

[comp12]

I think you ought to apply again. After all, since UCSD and UCLA (the two schools you are wavering between according to your numerous other threads) only admit computer science applicants to Fall Quarter, you can't possibly still have an open and uncommitted offer still in hand in August. What gives?

[wine in coffee cups]

So to be clear, you aren't really asking if you can do better than #14. My reaction to that question was sure, #9 or #12 or whatever don't sound out of reach if you've hit #14 already and since then improved your profile a bit.

However, what you're actually asking is much less reasonable. You're wondering very specifically if you can get into one of the top 3 CS departments or Harvard. I think it's a long shot given you didn't get in last year -- don't these applications ask if you've applied before and sometimes even discourage reapplications? -- and you think your CS research experience is still weak. But you seem like you really don't want to go to UCSD or UCLA (or at least longer than one year) and are looking for an excuse not to. I do feel that you shouldn't go somewhere you have so many reservations about, even if those reservations appear to stem from your fixation on getting into a program that sounds as prestigious to a layman as it is in the CS world. Hey, all those students at UCSD whose qualifications you admire? (1) Yes, this is a reflection of the fact that UCSD is a very good department, but also consider that (2) those students by and large didn't get into Stanford/MIT/Cal or else they'd be probably be there. That would be because those particular departments are extraordinarily selective.

Overall, I say reapply, unlikely as it is to work out as desired, but that's because it just seems there's no way you'll contentedly attend one of the very good schools you've already gotten into without starting a few more of these threads. Maybe it'll work out! But probably not. What will you do if you don't get into one of your dream CS PhD programs? I still stand by and killing it in B-school apps in a few years instead.

Also, you should definitely read written by a fresh Stanford CS PhD about his experiences. Spoiler: opportunities are what you make of them and just because you're at the #1 department in the world doesn't mean everything will go as hoped. Shit's hard.

[anon1]

wine in coffee cups-- thanks for the e-book. I'll check it out. and thanks for the job suggestion. I will think about that. Also, you do make a good point about the students I mentioned at UCSD. Sounds like realistically, I don't have a chance at those schools. Which is fine, I just wanted to gauge.

[ssk2]

A question, as someone who is applying for Masters courses - what kind of chance would anon1 stand if they were to apply to MS programs at those universities?

[anon1]

ssk2-- Thanks for asking. I'm curious too... The professors at my undergrad institution said that Master's programs are much easier to get into than PhD programs. I would be interested in doing a Master's program, but probably only with funding...

[Max Power]

Masters programs are usually easier to get into precisely because they are not funded. I also come from the social sciences so ymmv

[ghanada]

Yeah, unfunded Masters programs are MUCH easier to get into than PhD. However, funded Masters are probably just as tough as PhD. They are very rare and you have to be a very standout applicant.

[TheFez]

Posts like this always leave me scratching my head.

If you are applying for a PhD in CS at a top school like Harvard or MIT don't you already sort of know the answer...?

Of course you run a risk of losing a Top 14 slot since the competition changes, funding changes, the decision makers change.

There's also an odd lack of weigh to the original post. I agree that finding a mistake in a problem (perhaps one of zillions who found that same error) doesn't belong in the same zip code as having published in several fields... assuming this is in legit journals and you made a significant contribution to the papers.

Talking about writing ACT math problems and teaching SAT students only calls into question why you only got a 160Q on the GRE -- so better to avoid that IMO.

[ponylevel]

Very few MS programs in Computer Science offer funding as part of admission.

At Stanford you'll have to find your own TAship, and although it wouldn't fully cover costs, it isn't terribly hard to get. Quoting a post on Stanford MSCS:

"In the Bay Area you could probably make $15k+ during the summer and another $7-8k per quarter if you get TA or RAships. It seems like a fair number of MS students do TAships and PhDs generally don't do any more than they have to, so you may be able to bank on that. In all, if you work summers and TA one quarter out of the year, you could offset the cost significantly.

Princeton's MSCS students are funded through TAship (admission stats here http://www.princeton.edu/gradschool/about/docs/ratestable/tablea/COS_MSE.pdf).

Other schools sometimes offer scholarships to exceptional MS applicants (Wisconsin Madison).

Getting funding for an MSCS is one or a combination of talent/initiative/luck.

[victor.s.andrei]

Getting funding for an MSCS is one or a combination of talent/initiative/luck.

Tuition assistance from one's employer...in a job that's relevant to the degree. Of course, the legwork requires quite a bit of initiative on one's part.

Edited August 21, 2012 by victor.s.andrei

[anon1]

TheFez -- the thing is that I got a letter of apology from the test writers, saying that I was the first one to find it and report it.

I agree that talking about teaching the classes undermines my credibility I've known that since I sent out my applications... too sad to leave out my only credible work experience for 2 years... in fact, I even taught a couple (not many) GRE classes too. And that was also on my resume and in the essay. I am surprised the schools that let me in did. I really was working against myself with that application. The essay itself was terrible (even my own parents thought it was bad) and one of the recs was bad. THIS is all why I wonder whether I shouldn't try again? Retake the GRE, start from scratch on the essay, and swap out a recommender.

[adelashk]

Argh anon1 again. No, the best you can do is #1. You just have to make a decision whether it is worth waiting another year or not. If you do end up waiting another year to reapply make sure you spend the year doing really interesting research, and even then someone will always argue that you're still not good enough for #1. Also, don't apply to schools you don't want to go to as is the case for your #14 acceptance.

[comp12]

I hope anon1 decides to apply again. I've been so entertained by his threads I want to read another round of them next year!

The down side is that said threads make me reach my quote of daily down-votes really fast. Oh well, you cut your losses

Edited August 28, 2012 by comp12

[byueng]

This is not specifically related to your field but I had a friend in mechanical engineering program , who got into Carnegie Mellon (Rank 11) Univerity of Illinois Urbana C ( Rank 7) but he did not get into many lower ranked college . So it all depends on your research interest that closely matches with university's requirement.

Another thing I have seen is Letter of Recommendation are HUGE! I know people that sucked academically and got into good program because the professors who wrote reco were previous department head or related in some way to the program applied.

[Pauli]

I think it would be a better idea to decide on the program based on what labs interest you there, not on what number is given to them based on people's perception of their prestige.

[comp12]

Everybody, take a look at anon1's previous threads. Troll.