Desperately need advice!!

[Albanski]

Hey,

I am in a dilemma. I recently took the GRE and didn't do so well (460V 440M, 900 combined).Other than that I have a 3.6 GPA at a good school. I have presented at a major conference and am in the process of being published as a coauthor. I want to apply to Rutgers Criminology program (deadline march 1st). But do not know how competitive I am. My LOR are great and one of my professors knows a professor there who I have sought out and asked to be my mentor and we have kept contact (that professor is a top professor). I am so devestated that my GRE score is so low that I am hesitant to apply because 1) I may be rejected 2) they will remeber next time I apply. Aside frrom this I am also waiting on being accepted as a Fulbright scholar. So, IF i get the fulbright scholar I would defer anyway. In the meantime, I am studying harder than before for the GRE and plan on taking it August. Does anyone have any suggestions for this dilema? Should I apply anyways?

Thanks for the advice in advance.

[sparkle456]

Good luck.

[grad2B]

If your mentor is a top professor at Rutgers, then s/he might have some influence on admissions or be a member of the admissions committee. Would you feel comfortable contacting this person to discuss your concerns? If you have maintained contact, you could just express your strong interest in the program and the fact that you were disappointed in your GRE scores, you want to apply, but don't want to hurt your chances of being accepted. And, just ask if s/he would recommend applying this year or waiting until you can retest.

I would guess that the professor will recommend that you apply. The advantage of contact is that you get to show how interested you are in the program, sort of explain the low test scores, and put your name in the professor's mind.

Really, don't distress too much about scores. I know it's disappointing, but everyone has good and bad things about their application. And, you have a lot going for you. You have a solid GPA, good recs, and great publication experience! I think you have a really good shot. We'll be rooting for you! Let us know how it goes.

[Albanski]

I took your advice and emailed him. I am waiting to see what he says. But If it doesn't work out, I have the Fulbright to look forward to. In a way, I guess the fulbright will look good on future application since I am not only doing research but also teaching two classes while I am abroad at the main university of that country. But what bothers me the most is that some schools care about GRE so much. I mean its a test that doesnt measure knowledge but how well you adapt to standardize tests. Graduate school is about hard work and perseverence. Someone who has consistently done well and worked on research projects as an undergraduate should be a good indicator. Lastly, no one applies for a PhD because they don't want to evade finding a job, or because its financially lucrative. No, we are applying because we love research and will dedicate the next 6 years of our life to further that, and how a GRE could measure that I really don't know. I highly doubt that I will get in, but it doesn't hurt to try. Plus, the university could use my $60 anyways, they need to buy bigger trashcans for the reject pile..haha

[Albanski]

I send the professor and email and the he replied saying that my chances were slim, but it was up to me to apply. I guess thats a bad sign and that I should retake them. I am so furstrated that I worked so hard in undergrad, only to do horrible on the GRE..any suggestions?? anyone???

[SDeviation]

I know exactly how you feel. My GREs were pretty bad (probably around the same, maybe a bit less) even after taking the test a few times - my mind just does not work how that test wants it to work (I did get 5.5 on the AW).

However, I have 3 years of stellar FT research experience in the foremost applied social research company in the world, 4 presentations at major conferences (ASA and PAA), 2 publications under review, one book under way with a former professor on data work flow, excellent letters, an MA in sociology with a perfect GPA, exstensive technological training (SAS, GIS, FORTRAN), lots of teaching experience inlcuding a world-wide webinar on SAS programing, and I work as a data and analytic consultant for a prominent cultural research firm here in Chicago (also multiple honor societies, scholarly affiliations, etc.).

The results of my applications? One rejected (Northwestern), one wait-list (UIC), and 2 probable incoming rejections (Chicago, UMichigan Ann Arbor).

It could be a fit issue (all except UMichigan as I am a demographer by trade), but it is really frusterating how important those damn numbers are.

[misterpat]

I am so devestated that my GRE score is so low that I am hesitant to apply because 1) I may be rejected 2) they will remeber next time I apply. I am studying harder than before for the GRE and plan on taking it August

They're going to see your previous score when you re-apply anyway. So, unless the $50-$70 is going to break your bank account, you might as well give it a shot and apply this year. Try to write a killer Statement of Purpose. Your LORs are good and your grades are decent, so you have a few things going for you. I would avoid criticizing the GRE in your statement, though, since it will look like you're just making excuses for your low score.

I've gotten 5 rejections out of the 9 schools I applied to so far. It's not the end of the world, certainly nothing to be afraid of. It's the nature of the graduate admissions game.

And if you get rejected, prepare for a few months for the GRE. I would suggest using Princeton Review's Word Smart for the GRE for the Verbal Section. Do as many practice tests (on the computer) as possible. You should see a rise in your scores eventually. I don't know what Criminology applicants usually score on that test, but you have a lot of room for improvement, so I wouldn't be surprised if you could bring your score up to around 1200 with enough work.

[slothy]

I'm really sorry that the OP and SDeviation aren't having better results. You both sound like you're prepared to make a real contribution to the discipline.

It could be a fit issue (all except UMichigan as I am a demographer by trade), but it is really frusterating how important those damn numbers are.

That sounds likely, although it's possible you're having trouble meeting the Graduate School minimums regardless of whether departments are voting to admit you. Northwestern is not the most quantitative department, UIC probably felt you were so overqualified that you'd be unlikely to accept (I think that's what happened to me with Indiana) and Chicago appears to be taking a smaller than usual cohort this year. Why didn't you apply to more of the big name demography schools (or at least some other upper midwest big-state schools - Wisconsin, Indiana, ect...)? Sometimes it can be seen as a red flag that you haven't thought about where your real academic fit is when you primarily apply to schools in one metropolitan area. Given that schools are so idiosyncratic in their treatment of the GRE, I think it's best to apply widely when you have low scores to increase your chances of hitting a department where they're not an issue. I'm guessing you were somewhat geographically limited to Chicago based on the schools you mentioned, but nonetheless if you were considering Michigan it seems like you have some flexibility.

Another possibility might have been that you seemed like you weren't focused enough on the academic side of the discipline, particularly if you said anything in your SOP about wanting to return to Mathematica/RAND/whichever firm you consider "foremost" (I'm really not up to date on private sector social research). At least it sounds like you'll be able to be productive over the next year if things don't work out for you in this cycle. It took me several hundred hours of work to bring my score from 1100's to 1420, so you might want to consider taking some time off to really focus on that GRE if you haven't already.

[SDeviation]

I don't meant to hijack the thread from the OP but that is a very thoughtful analysis, slothy, and I appreciate it.

I am somewhat tethered to the Chicago area as 1. I'm a homeowner with wife/child and 2. I have rather ill parents who I would really not like to be all that far from. Otherwise, to be perfectly honest, I probably would have applied to a PhD program strictly in demography (such as Cornell) though lord-knows if my quantitative scores would have been up to snuff (despite being very quantitative in both my "academic" and "applied" research). In hindsight, Madison might have been a good idea to apply to as I know they are fairly active in population studies.

I suppose we shall see for next year. Now, partially as a result of my applications, I am mainly wrestling with whether it would be prudent to leave a very lucrative career given the state of the economy. Time will tell.

[Albanski]

What's so sad is that the GRE does not measure success or how well you will do in the program, yet these departments which are loaded with social scientists who understand what statistical significance means still use them. It boggles my mind! You guys are right I have nothing to lose, only $60. But it pains me that I worked hard in undergrad to achieve nothing, but horrible GRE scores and rejections.

I wish the demographics person luck, because he certainly deserves a seat in the incoming class and has proven himself in the last four years. It is not fair that he has not been accepted because of GRE scores.

[SDeviation]

Agreed, mkurti098. I would like to think that demonstrated social research experience would be a better indicator of success in a research-oriented degree than test scores, but that appears to be rather minatory in comparison. In addition, as slothy correctly noted, it is unlikely it comes down to simply my scores (though I imagine it is a large part of it).

However, I do not mean to discount all the amazing individuals on this board who worked their ever-loving @$$es off to get top scores - they well deserve their admissions and I wish them the best of luck.

I say go for it, mkurti098. $60 is nothing in the long run, and for all you know it could be the best $60 you ever spent. I for one will be rooting for you!