Professor ranks and who to contact as a potential supervisor

[imissreading]

I'm not directly familiar with the American system and I don't really understand the distinction between Professor, Associate Professor and Assistant Professor. In the past I have contacted someone who wasn't a full professor about potentially working with her as a PhD candidate, and she responded saying that I could take her classes but she could not supervise my dissertation given her position. Is this typical? Should I include assistant and associate professors in my search for faculty members to work with directly?

[Eigen]

I have never seen a tenure track professor (Assistant, Associate) who wasn't able to supervise students.

Usually, you'd run across faculty who couldn't supervise you if they weren't either full time or research faculty- adjuncts, instructors, professors of practice.

It may be that you contacted an Assistant Professor who wasn't research faculty, but I've just never run across those.

Assistant, Associate and Full Professor are pay-grade and seniority ranks. They are loosely tied to the tenure track, but not exactly. In other words, you can get tenured without a promotion from assistant to associate.

It's quite possible for someone to never be promoted to "full" professor just due to lack of departmental funds. One of my undergraduate departments only had two endowed chair lines in the whole department. So the two most senior faculty had those, everyone even just a couple of years behind them were all associates.

I should add- some schools have, in the sciences at least, Research Assistant Professors, who are just research positions. They likely couldn't supervise a thesis either.

For the humanities, you're more likely to see a Visiting Assistant Professor, which is a full time but transient (1-3 year) position, and also can't supervise a thesis.

[New England Nat]

An assistant professor is someone without tenure and many places will not let them supervise dissertations or even be on committees. Even if they are allowed to take on graduate students it is usually not a very good idea because they will have to come up for tenure while you are still at the institution and if they fail to get tenure it can be ... awkward for you.

An associate professor usually has tenure and i've never heard of them not being able to supervise. The only place off the top of my head that they do not have tenure is Hopkins, but that may have changed.

A full professor or a professor with a named chair is a senior rank.

Some places have a "lecturer" position and that's even below assistant professors and is sometimes on the tenure track or not. A Visiting Assistant Professor (VAP) is a very low rung position, with an insecure job prospect and never going to be allowed to take on graduate students.

Edited September 7, 2012 by New England Nat

[TMP]

No. If it's a visiting position, she's only there on a temporary basis. She *could* get a permanent position but it's not in her contract at the moment.

If it's a regular faculty, i'd find it very weird and I'd be on the caution side. You don't want to get caught in departmental politics if you really want this person to be your dissertation adviser. This person may also be too insecure to take on graduate students.

[Eigen]

A VAP is usually a reasonably mid-rung position. It's on par with a regular Assistant Professor, usually, but without the long-term implications. And anyone that's thinking of a VAP as something that might turn into a TT job is fooling themselves, most likely.

As to Associates and Tenure... I'm not aware of any universities that grant them together. They're usually close in frame, but they aren't tied to one another at all. The normal process is to be awarded Tenure, and then immediately apply for your promotion to Associate.

As to not wanting to work with an Assistant Professor... There are lots of threads discussing the pros and cons of that.

[New England Nat]

Very kind of you moderator, but you aren't in history, but you are incorrect. Other than Hopkins, it's the norm for the promotion from assistant to associate to be tied to tenure. And in the humanities, a VAP is not a mid-rung person, it's only a step above an adjunct.

[Eigen]

I can tell you for sure that at my school the promotions are not joined, this direct from the Associate Provost on Faculty Affairs (who heads the committee on Tenure and Promotion).

It's also worth commenting that field doesn't matter when it comes to Tenure and Promotion, by and large. The exact bits that will get you tenure or promotion do, but the processes and procedures are set by the Faculty Senate as a whole. So you won't see one department promote at the same time as Tenure, and another promote at a different time. The decoupling of the promotion process from tenure is becoming increasingly common, enough so that I've seen it discussed quite a bit.

And since VAP is a position that is very uncommon (I've never seen one) in the science and engineering fields, I'm obviously talking about the humanities here. VAPs are usually above both adjuncts and lecturers (in my experience) due to their standing on departmental committees. A VAP is someone that's being groomed to move on and up, and are treated as such. In my experience, roughly on par with a TT Assistant Professor. And along with that, you have Teaching Fellows (not assistants), Adjuncts, and Lecturers below them in the hierarchy, and Associate and Full Prof's above them.

If you disagree with me, that's fine. There are a heck of a lot of universities out there. But just because I'm in not in the humanities doesn't mean I don't follow employment trends in the humanities or elsewhere. And for the record, moderator is a group I'm part of, not my posting name.

As support, if you're interested in reading, here's a CHE forums discussion on decoupled tenure and promotion: http://chronicle.com...ic,87578.0.html. Specifically, I think it's worth drawing attention to the 8th post, which mentions that tenure and promotion are separated at many, if not most, schools, and the following discussion on norms and reasoning. Also note that there's no discussion of field differences here, as T&P are a school wide process.

[New England Nat]

It's a family buisness for me, I know a lot of universities. We'll have to agree to disagree. Or just assume we know a different set of universities. I honestly suspect part of this may be about hard and soft money lines, and paycuts and levels. In the context of a system wide pay cut, the promotion could be decoupled. But as a rule, for the person trying to contact protential advisers, an assistant doesn't have tenure and an associate does.

In the last several years VAP posts have largely been used as a budget means to avoid the appearance of hiring more and more adjuncts in departments that don't have the lines for TT positions. The trend has been that VAPs are rarely hired on permenantly and often if they do have to restart their tenure clocks. I know a number, both recent graduates from my department and friends within my field. They are often given work heavy course loads such that they couldn't possibly do what is needed for promotion. Essentially departments use them like junior faculty members, but don't invest in them like junior faculty because they know wont be there in 2-3 years.

But given that the original poster was asking about contacting faculty to potentially work with, and as far as that goes, all that matters are the line between TT assistant professors and associates.

I apologize if I sound jumpy, but I've seen a lot of science types commenting about things in the humanities threads on subjects like the culture and unwritten rules of the profession and give misleading information. You clearly are doing research, and I appreciate that. Our differences are likely more of speaking past each other.

[Eigen]

Higher Ed is a family business for mem as well. I think the likelyhood is exactly ehat you suggest- just different sets of universities. With over 4000 in the US alone, there are bound to be quite a few differences.

I do agree completely for the purposes you mention- the vast majority of associates will have tenure, the vast majority of assistants won't- even in a decoupled system, since its rarely more than a year between the two.

I think we also may be defining ranks differently- I'm thinking in terms of more short term things. You are very right about VAPs not being, or becoming full time positions in all but a very few.