MDiv Program Help

[jrt715]

Bottom line up front is that I'm considering PTS, Emory, and Duke and want to know if I stand a chance. I am an active duty Soldier who recently completed my UG in Multi-Disciplinary Studies. I have applied to be a Reserve Chaplain and want to attend Seminary/Divinity School with the plan to get a Phd and become a professor. My cognate focuses at were Bible and Social Science. My UG GPA is a 3.3.

I know my UG is generic, but amidst operational and combat deployments, combat injuries, training, and raising and providing for a family it is what I could do with the Army paying for it.

I'm not worried about the financial part because the Army pays for it. More about getting in and living in an area where I can raise my toddlers and my wife can work.

When I began this process I sought too much counsel from too many people and applied to places I'm now not really interested in attending. At this point I want to go where my wife and I want to go and at the same time really be in a place of faith and academic community and at the same time make up for my UG degree.

So folks, do I have a shot??

[Balatro]

Yes.

Given good LORs, nothing unusual in your PS, etc. - With your background/life experiences and the fact that you have, by all reasonable means, thrived...I think the programs will try to gobble you up as quick as possible.

While I was at Yale, there were 3 active duty soldiers (Army) in the MDiv program with mine and I know 2 of them were given generous financial offers and notified of their acceptance weeks before most of us.

[jrt715]

Good to know. What do you know of YDS currently btw? I was told by a close friend that YDS is not as good as it once was and that Duke has replaced it in terms of academic excellence.

I'm also wanting to get specifics on those programs from a family perspective as far as if any of the more academic programs foster an environment for the families that attend there. Any suggestions?

[Guest]

I think your stats are fine and are a bit above most school's minimum requirements. You have a very valid reason as to why your GPA was even low to begin with and, since you are an army serviceman, that will give you a big boost in admissions. Keep in mind that, to begin with, acceptance rates tend to be anywhere from roughly 20-50%, with a much larger emphasis on that 50% rate so it's not that competitive to begin with. I theorize that those who get cut are just meeting minimum requirements statistic-wise and/or have a bad statement of purpose or bad letters of recommendation. Beyond all this, you must keep in mind that the stats are not so much the distinguishing part of your application as is the demonstration of your interest, your purposes and especially your fit with the school.

As a student of Duke Divinity School I can vouch for it in saying that it is indeed a very strong faith-community with exceptional academic standards. As to whether Yale has lost its thunder or not, I'm highly suspicious of that but your friend may be slightly correct but I don't really see how this could be accurately determined. Either way, don't be too swayed since Yale is by all accounts a very top notch program regardless.

Any of the Southern schools (Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt) will have a lower cost of living and any of the schools in the Northeast (Harvard, Union, PTS, Yale) will be more expensive. You might also consider University of Chicago (cost of living comparable to Northeast) and Notre Dame or Boston College if you are Catholic (you can get an academic degree from them otherwise but their MDiv is highly focused on Catholics). In either case, since all these schools are located in major urban areas (Duke's urban area is a little more spread out but can be considered a fair sized city-scape) I am sure you will find excellent schools and about the same amount of job opportunity, depending on your wife's field. They are also all the top schools in the country for Divinity school.

[jrt715]

Thanks for the insight. My buddy is a Duke student currently and he was saying that the program at YDS is not the same as when much of the Duke faculty got their Phd's there. At any rate, I am not Catholic, so those few won't work. to be homest, I did not grow up in church and really do not have a specific denominational tie. Part of this is work related. When you move every two years you tend to choose places where you feel the Gospel is preached and your family is served rather than based on team loyalty. At this juncture theologically I am a conservative leaning moderate and more or less a Baptist. Where I fall within that spectrum is up for grabs.

Originally I applied to and have been accepted at Reformed Theological, Liberty Baptist Theological, and the Southern Baptist Seminary. Nothing wrong with them, but as I consider my interests and academic goals I find myself wanting a Divinity School that will challenge and stretch me and help me to develop a solid theological framework pulling from multiple denominational perspectives. In other words I don't want to be indoctrinated. I also want to set myself up for further study. At the same time I'm looking for a school where people practice what they teach as well as a place where families are included. I'm not looking for anyone to hold my hand, but I think that for those of us with families God is calling them when He calls us. I want the school to support and foster that.

Last, what's the word about Emory? As an Atlanta native it's home for me, yet some have cautioned me against going there. Any thoughts? Now that I've given more information, additional thoughts are welcomed. Thanks again.

[Balatro]

Yale may not be as powerful as it was in the 70's but I wouldn't say it has lost its thunder by any means. A rather large proportion of their students go on to PhD programs - history, english/literature, religious studies, social work, and sociology being the big ones (no particular order).

I found the community to be incredibly lively and involved (on campus and the wider New Haven community). Academically, I found myself very engaged and challenged - while I didn't personally pursue a PhD program at this point in my life, many of my professors asked if I was considering applying to their PhD and even went so far as offering to serve as advisors (while never confirmed, I took it as a "If you apply, I can guarantee you acceptance.").

Being an Episcopalian I felt very comfortable at Yale - Episcopalians make up a large part of the student body. Also, being a heterosexual male deeply interested in gender studies, sexuality, and feminist interpretations of the Bible made me a bit of an oddity according to most I spoke with and that perhaps fueled my professors giving me extra attention and encouragement while at Yale.

Anyway, I loved my time at Yale and it's my #1 choice should I decide to pursue a PhD.

I think Emory is an amazing school, their Divinity School included - they seem to be really on top of social activism/justice. As far as what the community is like and the academic rigor of their program, I can't say.

Duke is a great school, but for me, an actual community is important and the fact that Duke didn't have Divinity housing made me decline their offer.

[MsBOOM]

Have you thought about Harvard Divinity School at all? Given Harvard's love for diversity, I'm sure they would love to see you here.

[jrt715]

No not at all. I figured I wouldn't stand a chance..at any of these schools really. Do you think differently? Also I've heard that theologically there isn't much focus if any on Christianity anymore. Do you have thoughts or insight on thi as well?

[sacklunch]

For what it's worth, it doesn't sound like as good a fit as YDS and PTS. Just taking a few classes at HDS when I was at BC I can tell you the student climate is quite different, than say Duke (where I'm at now). If you are 'conservative,' as you say you are, then I'm not sure how well you'd like it. Actual HDS students/alumnae feel free to chime in.

But, really, if you want to eventually get a PhD and teach: go to the place that has the best professors in your prospective area. If that happens to HDS, then apply. It just seems like HDS may be more of a Department of Religion, rather than a divinity school (I'm not saying this is bad, just noting that it may not be the right place for everyone).

cheers

[jrt715]

Fair enough. I sort of thought the same thing. How do you like Duke?

[sacklunch]

I'm in the Dept. of Religion, not the Divinity School. So I'm not sure how much I can really tell you about their program. I'm agnostic and thus didn't want any religious affiliation to be an issue wherever I went; and I've found the Dept/Duke as a whole to be, more or less, a seamless transition from BC's Theology Department, which is more or less (in biblical studies) secular (not their seminary, of course). There are a few other folks on here in the Divinity School, so you may ask them specifics about DSS.

Edited September 18, 2012 by jdmhotness

[Guest]

I am one of those at the Divinity School and would say the academics are indeed challenging, and people from all sorts of traditions are here. It is indeed heavily Christian, and deeply committed to reading Scripture with discernment and creating community. Evidently some think community here is somehow lacking, but I don't exactly see how. You can live in an intentional community with div students if you want to do that, room with other students, or otherwise attend social events of which there are way too many options (the process of deciding where to be involved each week, when they send an e-mail with a list of events, is difficult in that you want to be five places at once!).

Anyways, there are Christians all across the spectrum here. I don't think an Evangelical would feel uncomfortable here, nor do I think a more liberal-minded person feel alone. I'm the only person here from my own denomination and I feel more belonging here than I did at one of my denomination's schools, so do with that what you want. No matter who you are though you will be respected and challenged thoroughly.

That's kind of a general reflection on the school. Please ask me anything else if you want more specific information.

[MsBOOM]

Okay, so... I don't know if any current HDS student or a student alumni from HDS has ever chimed in, but I think most people are wrong in assuming that the degrees offered here aren't strong in theology - especially Christian theology. In a school where it is so often hard to find two people with the same kind of interests, the only time I see multiple people say the same topic IS always in regards to theology. I believe that with HDS' programs like their women's, gender, sexuality, and Religion studies, Islamic Studies, and Comparative studies in Religion, people often forget about the MDiv program here... and it can be extremely theologically based. More than anything, on the course offerings for the following two years, the most classes I saw were on two things: Christian Theology and Islamic Theology.

AND, I see that you've applied to be a reserve chaplain. I'm not sure if you can do that here, but at HDS, you complete two cases of "field-study" (you can do more if you like) in which you actually go OUT into the field and work with religious communities. For instance, I just met a girl who just completed a field study working as a chaplain at a hospital. Best of all, if you are also able to be paid through these field studies.

So it's obvious you will get both, theology and actual field work.

The best thing about HDS is that you pretty much SHAPE what you need to do. There are certain requirements, but outside of these minimum requirements, you have so much freedom to pick and choose what you want to focus on. After all, how else can just ONE MDiv program have students that want to do absolutely different things such as Muslim Chaplaincy in a prison setting and becoming a Jewish Rabbi (who is also gay) with a strong academic background in the tradition? Through freedom of shaping their own studies, of course! I'm an MTS student (not MDiv), and even though my concentration is Women's, Gender, Sexuality, and Religion, my first semester is already gearing me up for my PhD application at Georgetown for... Religious Pluralism. So often when we ask each other what are concentrations are, we all just shrug and list off our interests!

Your first post in this thread is a statement of purpose already brewing under your fingertips. This also happens to be a statement of purpose that will turn heads at HDS... after all, I think above all, HDS absolutely loves it's diversity and the many different voices that chime in on religion. As different as you are, ironically you would fit right in (in my opinion). HDS wants original, and you want theology. It's a good match. It would never, ever hurt to apply.

Edited September 20, 2012 by MsSarahBOOM

[jrt715]

@sarah, I appreciate your insight and am somewhat encouraged by your thoughts. Ultimately, when it comes to HDS, I'm concerned with encountering a Christian Theology program that more or less blends multiple faiths and is focused more on questioning how Christianity is valid in modern society rather than intellectual biblical instruction. My understanding from talking to others is that HDS is more focused on interfaith thinking, tolerance, an pluralism than developing solid theological frameworks for each religious preference. I'm ok with being in an interfaith program. I appreciate intellectual discussion and believe that tolerance and pluralism are important issues. However I want my M.Div work to be firmly rooted in Scripture. In some respects I'm not set in my theological framework persay, and don't want to find myself engaging in watered down Christianity for the sake of saving face amongst other students or faculty who have an entirely different faith system.

This may or may not be true though. Perhaps you could shed some light for me. Just like in this forum I only know what people say. BUT I have yet to talk to a current student either except you. That pretty much gives your thoughts more weight as far as I'm concerned because its not just speculation.

If the word I get from others is true, I'd rather go to a place like Gordon-Conwell or Boston U. At least there I can get grounded theologically and take the classes I want to (up to 1/3 of my degree) at any school within the Boston Theological Institute which includes HDS and 9 other schools.

Anyway, I'm open to more thoughts and suggestions. I find out this week if I've been accepted into the reserve chaplaincy. The same day I find out I'm choosing a school to apply to.

[sacklunch]

Speaking with my past friends at HDS, their biggest 'problem' with the school was while, yes, it is very diverse, but it also looses the homogeneity that many people actually want at a Divinity School. For instance, if you happen to be of a particular Christian tradition, say Methodist, many students want a seminary experience that immerses them in a purely Methodist environment (exceptions are welcome, of course, but they want much of the student body to be of a similar group). And, truly, I do not mention this because it is what I want/wanted at a theological school; in fact I would have loved to be a HDS because of this 'problem,' which I don't find to be a problem at all (I'm agnostic). But I mention it because I have heard from countless folks in different Divinity Schools that they came to X school, in large part, because that aspect of community is an important part of their theological development.

A quick anecdotal: I went to HDS' welcome students deal last year with a friend who was (at the time) a second year MTS there and his friend made a comment after I said I went to BC and not HDS, "OH, one of the places where theology is actually being done!" Again, don't let this color the entire school's ethos, but the comment stuck with me and has only been supported by other comments from HDS students. Strangely enough, I would have much rather been at the place that 'didn't do theology' (HDS).

cheers

Edited September 22, 2012 by jdmhotness

[sacklunch]

.

Edited September 22, 2012 by jdmhotness

[jrt715]

@Jd, thanks for that. I'm general Protestant. Basically at this point I don't know which denomination better suits me. If I had to pick one it'd probably be Baptist, largely based on familiarity. Notwithstanding, I don't care about a denominational community at divinity school/seminary, but would rather have a variety of perspectives. However I want these perspectives to be Christian. I'm not opposed to interfaith study, but my spiritual formation need to be confined within Christianity. Sexual ethics, gender, Calvinist vs. Armenian, etc are not my initial focus. Rather I believe that my theology in those areas will form itself as I learn, ask questions, engage, and grow. I'm not sure HDS is where that can happen. I'm not sure about anything. I'm actually so torn over where to apply that it's consuming. Aside from the theological implications I'm concerned with moving my family, being able to so the workload, and building my academic résumé. Decisions decisions right? Haha.

[bilberrywaffle]

I'm a current student at HDS. I wanted to talk a bit because my personal focus is in Hebrew Bible Scriptural studies. Of course, I am taking this focus through an MTS, which is a bit different in terms of what I produce in class.

Honestly, Duke could be a very good fit for you because it is more conservative and offers more Christian theology courses. HOWEVER, HDS has a strong program in scriptural studies and offers a plethora of languages for instruction that many schools do not (e.g. Syriac, Akkadian, Sumerian etc). Plus, we have many, many courses on Jewish/Christian scripture. Further, all scripture studies AND other classes have both an MTS and an MDiv focus. HDS strives to produce MDivs that are well educated in both the arts of ministry and the socio-historical heritage of the tradition being studied.

For example, I am taking a class on Job and the problem of suffering. For me, I spend my time doing translations and socio-historical analysis. My friend, who I will call J, is doing the same class but for a Christian Theological requirement in his MDiv. He does the socio-historical work, but is also writing a sermon on Job to fulfill the arts of ministry component of the course. As an MTS I do not have to do this part but J does. (And he doesn't have to translate, so maybe he made a better choice than myself! )

HDS is not wholly known for its theological studies, but in all honesty it is an excellent education and there are several classes for Christian Theology, New Testament studies, and Hebrew Bible; all of these would be beneficial for your desired career. It's often useful to find a balance between the theological skills and socio-historical studies. We have several "big names" in Christian studies specifically, but obviously just having big names isn't a good enough reason to go to a school. I'm just throwing that in there.

From my perspective, both schools would be a good fit for you, as long as you don't mind that HDS is a quite liberal school. That being said, I was raised in a conservative family and I am thriving just fine here.

If I have any advice to you, I would say you should go on the course websites and look at the course offerings based on MDiv areas of concentration and see if courses for the next few years "jive" with your interests. Do the same for Duke. You don't want to go some place thinking that you are going to get more scriptural studies and find out that all of the scripture courses are things you are not interested in. I hope this helps, and if you have any specific questions on what it's like to do a scriptural program at HDS feel free to message me.

Peace.

[MsBOOM]

I went about the lazy way and had my friend (who posted right above me) reply to you, hahaha.

[jrt715]

Hahaha. Understood.