To go...or not to go.

[hip2btriangle]

Okay, so I was all happy about the fact that I got admitted somewhere (Irvine) with great funding. I applied knowing full well that my chances of admission to any of these schools would be very slim (mediocre recs, okay GREs, only 4 grades from my current MA program, no research experience), and the fact that I have an offer from a energetic and fairly well ranked department is awesome.

Then I read this: viewtopic.php?f=67&t=15528&p=70566#p66933

I had been worried about the social climate in Orange County, particularly because I went to an undergrad that more or less was of the stone-throwing variety for minority students. I know that the soc department at Irvine is super friendly and very cool, but do I want to spend 5+ years in a place like that? I'll know more after the Open House, but in true GradCafe form I'm anxiously posting now.

Here's what's on my mind:

- If I decide to go, is it possible to transfer out after the first year? I've heard that transferring mid-PhD program is actually fairly hard to do, but I could swing some great recs from my current MA program and I'd now have research experience and a summer presentation at the ASA.

- Should I try to defer for a year and finish more of my current (top Ivy) MA program, and also apply to other schools that have a better social fit? Would my chances of admission differ if I applied as a transfer during my first year or if I applied again as a MA student next year?

The thing is that I really WANT to start a program sooner rather than later, but I don't want to hurt my chances down the road if things get rough there. Should I try to stop freaking out now, wait 'til I go to the open house, and then start worrying?

[slothy]

Frankly, I think you're making too big of a deal out of a single thread on a rather anonymous online forum. This kind of reminds me of when an expert on grad school admissions came to my campus to give a lecture and when a student said something to the effect that they're worried about going someplace too hot or too cold, he replied "are you crazy enough to think that they'll ever let you go outside?" The point is that you'll be so absorbed in your studies that you won't have too much time to be bothered by the general social climate of the school/area. I'm sure that the soc department is not representative of the larger university in the sense you've described, as sociology grad cohorts tend to be rather diverse and cohesive to my understanding.

Transferring between PhD programs is difficult unless you're good at networking and can really make a convincing argument that your current program isn't meeting your substantive needs (i.e., research interests). It will raise red flags about why you weren't happy at Irvine and if you say that you're just transferring because the town is, well, typical of American sun belt suburbs it probably won't get you very far. Keep in mind that you won't have much control over where you end up teaching after you graduate!

[hoobers]

Irvine is pretty bad. I never went there, but I had a job there briefly so I got to know the area, and it is very conservative by SoCal standards. I think the description of it on the other thread is accurate. But if you live in Long Beach like the other thread suggests, and just don't hang out around campus, you should do fine. LA, for all the flak it gets, is a wonderful and diverse place, and if you live in Long Beach you should have no trouble basing your social life there. Also I am certain the other sociology grad students aren't going to be "Irvine types".

Just my 2

[hip2btriangle]

Yeah, I just think the position I put myself in -- go to Irvine, or apply again next year with an infinitely better application -- puts a lot of pressure on my visit next weekend. I know that post-grad you don't have many choices in terms of geography (though I may still go the administration route), but for the next 5+ years I'd prefer to have a social life. Grad school is still many parts academic and some parts social.

[misterpat]

Yeah, I just think the position I put myself in -- go to Irvine, or apply again next year with an infinitely better application -- puts a lot of pressure on my visit next weekend. I know that post-grad you don't have many choices in terms of geography (though I may still go the administration route), but for the next 5+ years I'd prefer to have a social life. Grad school is still many parts academic and some parts social.

You'll still have all the socialists/queer-theorists/punk-rock-ethnographers/i'll-bet-i'm-more-of-an-anti-racist-than-you-are types that populate Sociology departments. You can all band together in opposition and have a social life.

[bold_brew]

I agree that you ought to make the most of your Irvine visit to really make sense of what you should do. Evaluate how well of a fit the department is for you (in terms of your subfield being respected, opportunities for individual research and publication, and faculty members who are enthusiastic in your work and would genuinely help you through grad school and beyond), and also explore the area beyond campus to determine whether you'd be able to live there. UCI has some good places around campus, such as an 'art-film' theatre, but once you hit Newport, Corona Del Mar and the other beach towns, you will start to encounter more of the stereotypical 'OC' attitudes. It's still prevalent as you head away from the coast, but people tend to be more covert about their wealth (as in, it's not as in-your-face as the coastal towns, by my perception).

This said, I grew up in a city in Orange County, about 20 minutes away from Irvine. I was always the 'poor' kid among my friends, and I had to actually work a job to get money (shock!). For UG, I moved out to Chicago. If you want more of my perspective living in OC, Triangle, go ahead and PM or e-mail me.

[scsuh]

Irvine is pretty bad. I never went there, but I had a job there briefly so I got to know the area, and it is very conservative by SoCal standards. I think the description of it on the other thread is accurate. But if you live in Long Beach like the other thread suggests, and just don't hang out around campus, you should do fine. LA, for all the flak it gets, is a wonderful and diverse place, and if you live in Long Beach you should have no trouble basing your social life there. Also I am certain the other sociology grad students aren't going to be "Irvine types".

Just my 2

[hip2btriangle]

I mean, the other thing that's nagging on my mind is...I applied this year almost on a whim, pretty much knowing my application wasn't really that strong...but that I have passion for the field and that I needed to give it a shot. Next year it will definitely be pretty darn awesome. I'm getting rejected from places I really had my heart in, places that I could probably get into next year that are closer fits and better ranked, and probably in areas that are more fun.

I guess I just have to decide for myself whether to go for it this year or take another chance next year.

[synthla]

I find the old adage about birds in hand being worth more than the ones in the bush to be pretty apt in a lot of situations. I'd be wary of going through the admissions process again next year with an offer in hand this year, when it seems pretty unlikely the economy will have improved much, and may even be worse, programs will have fully assessed the impact on their budgets and may cut numbers again, and a lot of un- and under-employed people will have had much more lead time to prepare applications.

Just as one, admittedly personal example, I finally decided to do this last summer before things got bad, so I had enough time to put together a decent application and get it in for this cycle; in the meantime high-paid professionals in my industry are being laid off left and right (one big law firm based in California just announced 440 layoffs today, including 190 attorneys, the largest ever by a US law firm)... I can't help but think when they can't immediately find jobs, at least a few of these well-qualified people might decide to follow the dreams they had before being sucked into the legal profession. And the same might be true in other industries.

Now I'm not saying that means we're all still not going to be competitive next year, but holdings offers now means we have the choice, but we can't be guaranteed we'll have the same or better options next year. Just my $.02. :wink:

[slothy]

I mean, the other thing that's nagging on my mind is...I applied this year almost on a whim, pretty much knowing my application wasn't really that strong...but that I have passion for the field and that I needed to give it a shot. Next year it will definitely be pretty darn awesome. I'm getting rejected from places I really had my heart in, places that I could probably get into next year that are closer fits and better ranked

IMHO, this would be a much better reason for passing on Irvine than concerns about whether you would like the social climate.

[Tritonetelephone]

I think the problem here is that you have been given too much information before your visit. It would have been better to evaluate the social climate of the area during your visit with a blank slate. The Irvine poster was probably writing from an UG perspective - which is going to be very different than your experiences, priorities, and interactions in a grad soc department. That's my opinion, anyway. I just don't want you to think that getting admitted somewhere better next year is going to be easy. This is my second year and I made big improvements to my app too, but so far have only gotten into my safeties.

[rising_star]

I imagine that most of the people telling you not to worry much about the social climate aren't minorities. As a minority student, I can tell you that social climate played a huge role in my decision-making. I wanted a place that wasn't full of racism, whether hidden or overt. It DOES matter to me, having lived in places with both. What I placed priority on in terms of social climate is how the grad students in the department were and if there were minority graduate student groups. While I'm one of 3 minority students, and the only one of my ethnicity, in my program, I find that no one treats me any differently than they treat any other student in the program. If you want to talk further, feel free to PM me.

[hip2btriangle]

Thanks for the feedback, all! I'm much more calm about my first real Open House coming up. Going to go in with an open mind and then do some serious thinking.

Thanks again!

[rebelrouser]

hip2btriangle,

you have every reason to be worried about at UC irvine. i am currently a grad student there--and so far, sans a handful of excellent faculty, good classes, and very, very few sharp students, i believe it does not provide a stimulating environment for intellectual growth. i'm sure you have gone to the open house now, but recruitment weekend is always about projecting everything good and beautiful. let me tell you why i think their socio department is not as strong as most people would think otherwise:

1. their entering cohort is the largest i've known--16-18!!! with only about 2-3 graduating from that cohort. most people they accept don't know what they want in life. most are fresh from college, wanting to go to grad school to avoid work and get paid for it. how can the department take care of 18 students, in terms of mentoring and guided study--something that is needed in a PhD program?

2. they do not have international students in their cohorts. diversity anyone? that is why the level of discussions in classes is so US-centric. global sociology anyone? also, while the undergrad is ethnically diverse, the grad program is not. they only have about 1-2 minorities in their cohorts.

3. if you're very political or an activist, do not go to UCI. if you're like me who come from a university where protests, teach-ins, and political discussions are part of student life, you will hate it there (luckily for me, i found a group where i can channel all my activism). the shallowness of the orange county environment rubs on the students. all they wanna do is go to the pub and discuss the mundane aspects of human existence.

4. the socio department is not heavy on theory. we read textbook contemporary social theory, for crying out loud! if you wanna be steeped in theory, do not go to this department.

that is all i have to say. consider this in your decision.