Need Some Help

[Vita Passiva]

Hello,

I am currently enrolled in a M.A. program in Theology. I have a B.A. in Biblical and Theological Studies. I am interested in pursuing a Phd in American Religious History. I am specifically interested in intellectual and religious history in the 18th and 19th centuries. My UG GPA is a 3.4 and my grad GPA is currently a 3.8. Neither are from top tier institutions. I would like to study in a History dept at a top tier school like Yale, Princeton, or Penn. Is it vital for me to get an M.A. in History? If so, what institution would you recommend for my stated goal.

Thanks for any help.

[TMP]

I'd consider adding Wisconsin and Michigan. See if you can get a good answer out of Charles (Chuck) Cohen at Wisconsin about your background.

[New England Nat]

Can't answer for all your institutions on the list but your current credentials should at least put you in the reasonable pool for Princeton. That doesn't mean you'll get in, but your credentials are in line with people who did.

[Sparky]

I have a BA and MA in various permutations of theology, and switched to history for the PhD. The adjustment was a lot rougher than I had thought it was going to be, even though I'd had basic historiography training during my MA (in historical theo). While I'm not complaining about where I am, part of me thinks it would have been a really, really good idea to fill in the gaps with a history MA first. Especially my first year, my papers ended up being basically historical theo, just because I was trying to do SO MUCH ELSE that I couldn't really get down and dirty with "more historical" sources, or find creative ways of interpreting them that move solidly out of the realm of theo. (Obviously religious texts, sermons, etc are historical sources and brilliant history is done with them--but that's not what I was doing). I don't know. It's hard to articulate the difference, but there absolutely is one.

Totally apply for a few PhD programs, because why not? It's all the proverbial crapshoot, anyway. However, be aware that you *will* face an uphill battle at a lot of schools, especially if your writing sample is a theology-esque paper and not stemming from a history class. So I would apply to a few funded MAs as a backup. (Which is general advice for *all* applicants, not just historians trapped in theology.)

[Vita Passiva]

Thanks for the help! I am sort of out of the loop on good History MA programs. Can you please list some top notch MA programs that would have decent funding?

[Sparky]

Uh. There are some older threads floating around about which schools offer funding. There are not generally hard and fast rules as to what MA programs are "top schools"--you will find a lot of debate about whether it is better to be an MA student at a High-Reputation school with a PhD program where the faculty might be more likely to pay all their attention to their own research and their PhD students, or a Medium-Reputation school where the faculty cultivate their MA students passionately. In general, good=funded. So I would look at older threads for ideas on that. (I obviously have no firsthand experience.)

One other thing to consider--a PhD application is more likely to be taken seriously if you have history profs writing your recommendation rather than theo profs. Have you taken a grad-level history class during undergrad or your current MA that you could wrangle a LOR out of, as well as a writing sample? (This again goes back to preparation--PhD programs will be looking for attestation that you can do PhD-level historical work, and history profs are really the ones in a position to judge this).

[TMP]

Uh. There are some older threads floating around about which schools offer funding. There are not generally hard and fast rules as to what MA programs are "top schools"--you will find a lot of debate about whether it is better to be an MA student at a High-Reputation school with a PhD program where the faculty might be more likely to pay all their attention to their own research and their PhD students, or a Medium-Reputation school where the faculty cultivate their MA students passionately. In general, good=funded. So I would look at older threads for ideas on that. (I obviously have no firsthand experience.)

I agree. It will depend what kind of experience you really want.... there are pluses and minuses to both.

[New England Nat]

And there are particularly egregious offending programs where the MA students are ignored, so you should try and float by specifric names before you make any assumptions about them. The place I've heard unending lists of negative experiances from is Chicago's MA for example.

[remenis]

Since this topic has kind of turned into one suggesting ways to find a good MA program - I just want to reiterate that you may very well not need an MA in history.

I would recommend that you find a few MA programs you think are a good (using the advice posted above) then apply to your desired PhD programs and MA programs at the same time. If you get into Penn or Yale without the History MA - Awesome, you saved yourself time. If you don't get into any, then you can do the History MA and try again.