Writing Sample processes!

[skybythelight]

I know there are various threads where the writing sample is discussed, but as I'm right in the middle of trying to get mine finished and wanting to tear my hair out, I was curious as to everyone's process/how they're attacking this arguably most important part of the application. Are you revising an already-written paper? Starting from scratch? Working with a prof or doing your own editing?

I graduated from my BA in May and am applying to 5 PhD and 4 MA programs, so I don't have a Master's thesis to work with. A former professor of mine is on a pretty sweet maternity package at Mt Holyoke this year (only teaching one course each semester), so she's graciously offered to devote a large amount of her time to helping me through this process: the writing sample, mostly, but everything else as well.

I had a rather short, six page-ish paper I had written for an undergrad course maybe a year and a half ago, and another more substantial, fifteen pager that I was originally planning on combining: the themes were similar enough that I thought it could be workable. However, once I started doing more research into the author that first, short paper was on, I realized that I had more than enough to work with there, so we scrapped the longer paper and essentially started from scratch. Some of the ideas and themes I had in that original paper have remained intact, but none of the actual writing.

As of now, I have about twelve pages written and revised a few times though by no means finished.

[anoveldave]

skybythelight, I was/am in a similar situation. I recently graduated from an MA program, but my MA thesis is not so much a thesis as it is longer research paper in a foreign language (more a test of language than content). I've looked to my undergrad papers, and considering that only honors students wrote undergrad theses, I have only 15-or-less page papers to work with. I decided on two of my best papers, one of which is more relevant to my intended field of study. This (close-reading) paper was 6-7 pages, and I've drafted it to 10. The other (research) paper was about 13 and I've managed to revise it into a 15 page draft. A writer friend (with whom I often workshop creative writings) is serving as editor for these papers. I anticipate near-complete drafts of both papers to be around 13-15 pages each, and will combine the two for 25-page writing sample requests, and choose one or the other for samples limited to a shorter length. I imagine that my choice of writing sample will be based on the quality of the final products and the programs to which I'm submitting.

I suggest digging up all your old notes and researching (really a quick parse on academic search engines) for relevant articles and essays. Each of my essays necessitated borrowing ~20 books from my undergrad alma mater (which is luckily just a short commute) and utilizing alumni privileges for academic search engines, and the papers definitely read better than the original draft because of the extra research.

I suppose a concern might be whether the newer drafts/essays are more removed from your original paper('s argument). I think that lands you in the whole "don't submit an unreviewed paper as a writing sample" mess. I'm including a short blurb about my MA thesis being in a non-English language and having to submit in its place a developed undergrad paper, which I hope buys me some compassion for not having an awesome senior thesis to submit.

[waparys]

I'm adding to an existing paper. It was only 13 pages so I'm trying to add two more. I'm working with the professor who originally graded it (my MA prof).

Naturally, I'm terrified.

If you already have an MA, they don't expect you to use your thesis, right? I'd just rather add than have to cut down. Plus, I just handed in the thesis two months ago and I'm still not ready to look at it again.

[skybythelight]

skybythelight, I was/am in a similar situation. I recently graduated from an MA program, but my MA thesis is not so much a thesis as it is longer research paper in a foreign language (more a test of language than content). I've looked to my undergrad papers, and considering that only honors students wrote undergrad theses, I have only 15-or-less page papers to work with. I decided on two of my best papers, one of which is more relevant to my intended field of study. This (close-reading) paper was 6-7 pages, and I've drafted it to 10. The other (research) paper was about 13 and I've managed to revise it into a 15 page draft. A writer friend (with whom I often workshop creative writings) is serving as editor for these papers. I anticipate near-complete drafts of both papers to be around 13-15 pages each, and will combine the two for 25-page writing sample requests, and choose one or the other for samples limited to a shorter length. I imagine that my choice of writing sample will be based on the quality of the final products and the programs to which I'm submitting.

I suggest digging up all your old notes and researching (really a quick parse on academic search engines) for relevant articles and essays. Each of my essays necessitated borrowing ~20 books from my undergrad alma mater (which is luckily just a short commute) and utilizing alumni privileges for academic search engines, and the papers definitely read better than the original draft because of the extra research.

I suppose a concern might be whether the newer drafts/essays are more removed from your original paper('s argument). I think that lands you in the whole "don't submit an unreviewed paper as a writing sample" mess. I'm including a short blurb about my MA thesis being in a non-English language and having to submit in its place a developed undergrad paper, which I hope buys me some compassion for not having an awesome senior thesis to submit.

Sorry, but I think you may have misunderstood... I've already done loads of research at my schools library and via their academic online resources since I decided to work with this one shorter paper. I also am working incredibly closely with a professor, so it will by no means be an unreviewed paper. I was just curious as to what others were doing, I'm actually beginning to feel fairly comfortable and confident in mine. The original paper is not really factoring into the final product other than as the jumping off point for some of the ideas. Thank you for the advice, though.

[anoveldave]

Sorry, but I think you may have misunderstood... I've already done loads of research at my schools library and via their academic online resources since I decided to work with this one shorter paper. I also am working incredibly closely with a professor, so it will by no means be an unreviewed paper. I was just curious as to what others were doing, I'm actually beginning to feel fairly comfortable and confident in mine. The original paper is not really factoring into the final product other than as the jumping off point for some of the ideas. Thank you for the advice, though.

You're right, I'm still reeling from the past two weeks of work that I've put into revising my own papers.

Regardless, my process/approach to the writing sample remains the same. I wonder though, have you come across any length requirements for your writing samples that you'd need to take into consideration with your work on the paper now? The range of page length min/max is complicating the differences in applications (SOP word count, transcript requests) I've encountered thus far.

[sebastiansteddy]

I am using a paper from a seminar that is also a section of my thesis. In editing the paper, I am working on my thesis and my writing sample at the same time. I am all about killing two birds with one stone.

[rems]

I'm revising a chapter of my MA thesis for my writing sample. I have one of rec writers helping me edit through the content in what I need to clarify, add, delete, etc. I haven't started the mechanics edit yet which is what I'm most afraid of... I'm typically not a strong writer mechanically (as I'm sure most of you can tell from my posts here which, as I read them over, are filled with errors all the time), so I am worried about this aspect.

I second that it would be better to add to something than take away. Taking away usually doesn't end well!

I'm glad you started this thread though -- I'm interested to see what other people are doing!

[ProfLorax]

My MA thesis was pure literary and cultural studies, and I am applying to Rhet/Comp programs. Therefore, submitting a chapter from my thesis isn't really an option for me. I still will be submitting a paper from a literature seminar, but it addresses writing studies, feminist theory, and disability studies, so it's much closer to what I am describing in my SoP. Also, I presented the paper at MLA in 2011, so I can gracefully bring that up in my SoP!

The original paper was 23 pages, so I had to cut stuff out. I now have two versions of the paper--18 pages and 15 pages-- to submit to PhD applications depending on the length of paper the program is requesting. I'm actually really happy that I trimmed the paper down; after cutting away all of the fluff, I feel like my revised essay is much stronger.

[skybythelight]

You're right, I'm still reeling from the past two weeks of work that I've put into revising my own papers.

Regardless, my process/approach to the writing sample remains the same. I wonder though, have you come across any length requirements for your writing samples that you'd need to take into consideration with your work on the paper now? The range of page length min/max is complicating the differences in applications (SOP word count, transcript requests) I've encountered thus far.

I hear ya: it can certainly be mind-numbing. I have to go back through and double check, but I'm pretty sure that all of my programs ask for something similar in length, in the 15-20 page range. I'm sure there are a few that vary and will throw me for a loop. In fact, maybe I should go check that out now. Sigh.

[ProfLorax]

Is anyone else applying to University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign? They require not one but TWO writing samples. So, that's fun.

[sebastiansteddy]

Is anyone else applying to University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign? They require not one but TWO writing samples. So, that's fun.

I am not applying there, but I know that a few schools prefer two smaller papers. I am wondering if anyone is applying to USC? The way the phrase their page requirement is kind of strange. They request "two writing samples (one if you wish to combine both) totaling no more than 20 pages." Does that mean you need to have two smaller papers, either completely separate or combined into one document, or can you submit one paper that totals 20 pages?

[asleepawake]

I'm using a chapter from my master's thesis, which is still incomplete. I believe that my second chapter is stronger, but my first chapter is in better shape as a document, so it really depends on what I can get done by the time deadlines come around. Right now I am stuck on my statement of purpose, so I haven't even looked at my thesis for a while. Can it be January, please?

[D. Malorkus]

I'm writing a new paper, tailored to complement my SOP. It's been three years since I finished my MA, and the work I'm proposing to do now is pretty different from the work I was doing before. I've been reading and taking notes towards the paper since August -- at this point, I've done about as much research as I did for my MA thesis -- but I'm only just starting to write it. I recommend this approach to anyone who likes the application process okay but wishes it were more stressful.

[practical cat]

Thanks for the smile, D. Malorkus. I wish you so much more than luck.

I'm using a chapter of my undergraduate thesis (that I wrote with an eye toward using as a writing sample so it's not as dreadful a surgical procedure as it could've been--current me thanks the forethought of my former self). It's pretty performative of what I'm attempting to articulate in my SOP (as it was kind of the thing that helped me to articulate my interests in the first place) and it's not in TERRIBLE shape despite what my complaining elsewhere may imply. It's just, like rems, I'm not the most confident in my idea expression ability and I'm the kind of writer that feels perpetually between drafts. It's literally in pieces on my floor (standard operating procedure--SOP!--for me).

I'm fortunate in that all of the PhD programs I'm applying to are OK with 20 pages and that's what the final document is looking like it'll be (fingers crossed). For the MAs, I'm putting a little more argument in a 7 page "close reading with an argument" that I wrote concurrently with the thesis. It doesn't sing the praises of my SOP in quite the same way but, I mean, it's not unrelated.

[ahaidaris]

I'm kind of in the opposite boat from the initial post on this thread. I just received my BA and will be applying to mostly PhD programs (some MA) either in Comp. Lit or various interdisciplinary fields. My thesis was about 40 pages (without footnotes) and then I cut it down to about 32 pages to meet the length for some awards I applied to. Most schools I'm applying to have a max. page length of 20 with a couple as high as 25. Either way im cutting out another 7 to 12 pages.

Anyone else having to do this? Any advice on how you're going about it, methods? From what I can tell a lot of schools will let you abstract portions of your a longer essay but I've already cut down 8ish pages from the original.

[rems]

I'm kind of in the opposite boat from the initial post on this thread. I just received my BA and will be applying to mostly PhD programs (some MA) either in Comp. Lit or various interdisciplinary fields. My thesis was about 40 pages (without footnotes) and then I cut it down to about 32 pages to meet the length for some awards I applied to. Most schools I'm applying to have a max. page length of 20 with a couple as high as 25. Either way im cutting out another 7 to 12 pages.

Anyone else having to do this? Any advice on how you're going about it, methods? From what I can tell a lot of schools will let you abstract portions of your a longer essay but I've already cut down 8ish pages from the original.

You can say in your SOP that it's a smaller chunk of a larger piece, and abstract what you cut out. The piece shouldn't read like pieces are missing though -- it should sound like a complete paper, but you can abstract that it's part of a larger piece that covers x,y,z, etc. I'm submitting a thesis chapter, so it's already a "single" piece anyway while I'm abstracting the two chapters around it. I do want to cut down on some of the "example" paragraphs though -- I do go on and on about some aspects of the novel I've working with that could be cut down and you wouldn't really lose the "feel" of the piece. Maybe you could start there with some of the extra paragraphs that are just as used as "examples" of your thesis. One of my profs suggested this stating: "You only need one example of working closely with a text to get your point across."

The reason I picked my piece the way that I did was because it's a chapter that deals a lot with theory and text equally. My first chapter is all theory, and my third chapter is mostly a little theory with more textual analysis. My middle chapter is a good balance of the two. Since I can't really cut down on the theory part without losing much, I'm cutting down on the textual examples. Also, I'm applying with literary theory as one of my fields of interest so I wanted a piece that demonstrates how I'm able to understand and utilize theoretical texts with literature. I don't know if your writing sample is more theory heavy or if it's more textual heavy, but this is at least what I'm doing.

[skybythelight]

You can say in your SOP that it's a smaller chunk of a larger piece, and abstract what you cut out. The piece shouldn't read like pieces are missing though -- it should sound like a complete paper, but you can abstract that it's part of a larger piece that covers x,y,z, etc. I'm submitting a thesis chapter, so it's already a "single" piece anyway while I'm abstracting the two chapters around it. I do want to cut down on some of the "example" paragraphs though -- I do go on and on about some aspects of the novel I've working with that could be cut down and you wouldn't really lose the "feel" of the piece. Maybe you could start there with some of the extra paragraphs that are just as used as "examples" of your thesis. One of my profs suggested this stating: "You only need one example of working closely with a text to get your point across."

The reason I picked my piece the way that I did was because it's a chapter that deals a lot with theory and text equally. My first chapter is all theory, and my third chapter is mostly a little theory with more textual analysis. My middle chapter is a good balance of the two. Since I can't really cut down on the theory part without losing much, I'm cutting down on the textual examples. Also, I'm applying with literary theory as one of my fields of interest so I wanted a piece that demonstrates how I'm able to understand and utilize theoretical texts with literature. I don't know if your writing sample is more theory heavy or if it's more textual heavy, but this is at least what I'm doing.

This is what I'm doing as well, although I'm not submitting a chapter of a longer piece but a single paper written for this purpose. I am working really hard to create a good balance between theory and close reading, and hoping that will work in my favor. I'm also applying with literary theory in various concentrations as an interest, but I don't want to do JUST theory... one of my favorite profs in undergrad was a theorist, but he was SUCH a theorist that the literature tended to get lost, if that makes any sense.

[rems]

It can be really hard to balance the two -- I've been tackling this with my SOP. How much do I want to stress that I like theory while still coming off as though I also still like literature as well? Too many eggs in one basket or not enough?

Does anyone else feel as though they're just constantly saying "coulda, shoulda, woulda" with EVERYTHING about their apps?

[Swagato]

Although I'm applying to film and media studies programs (having completed my MA), I am interested in opinions regarding *not* submitting the MA thesis or part thereof. Is this something that should be addressed in the SOP, or does it just not matter? My reason is that my MA thesis focuses on an area that is quite removed from my PhD research interests this time around. I am a second-round (re)applicant, so my PhD project has changed, under advisement, significantly from last year.

[sebastiansteddy]

Although I'm applying to film and media studies programs (having completed my MA), I am interested in opinions regarding *not* submitting the MA thesis or part thereof. Is this something that should be addressed in the SOP, or does it just not matter? My reason is that my MA thesis focuses on an area that is quite removed from my PhD research interests this time around. I am a second-round (re)applicant, so my PhD project has changed, under advisement, significantly from last year.

My suggestion would be to address this in one or two sentences in your statement. I'd mention where you got your MA and the name of your thesis, and then say something like "Since completing my MA, I have developed an interest in ______"or something to that effect. Just my suggestion though. I'd probably ask an advisor.

[ProfLorax]

Although I'm applying to film and media studies programs (having completed my MA), I am interested in opinions regarding *not* submitting the MA thesis or part thereof. Is this something that should be addressed in the SOP, or does it just not matter? My reason is that my MA thesis focuses on an area that is quite removed from my PhD research interests this time around. I am a second-round (re)applicant, so my PhD project has changed, under advisement, significantly from last year.

Hi Swagato! I posted just yesterday that I am doing the same thing. I mentioned my MA thesis briefly in my SoP, but I only wrote about a small portion that is actually relevant to the programs to which I am applying. Something to note is that many MA programs do not require a thesis, so I don't think PhD programs will be automatically suspisious if you do not submit a portion of your thesis with your application. From what I have learned from my advisors, POI's, department websites, and this forum, the writing sample is key and it should absolutely reflect the interests stated in your SoP, so I say go with a paper that demonstrates your strengths in your field rather than your MA thesis. But, like sebastiansteddy advises, you should check with your advisor before deciding anything!

[waparys]

Although I'm applying to film and media studies programs (having completed my MA), I am interested in opinions regarding *not* submitting the MA thesis or part thereof. Is this something that should be addressed in the SOP, or does it just not matter? My reason is that my MA thesis focuses on an area that is quite removed from my PhD research interests this time around. I am a second-round (re)applicant, so my PhD project has changed, under advisement, significantly from last year.

I'm using a different paper mostly because I don't want to cut down my thesis. Also it was on a very specific poem and I think I've gotten all I can out of it...I don't know. I'm confused and lost just like the rest of you.

[Swagato]

Thanks for the quick flurry of responses!

The low-down on the MA issue, at least for me, from my advisor: Don't bother about it. Dispose of your MA research focus in a line, *but ensure that you show a continuity between that and your stated research goals*. Then proceed to draw out how your provided writing sample sets you up for your PhD work.

[RynAdler]

Although I really want to write a paper from scratch that better demonstrates my current interests, I'm probably going to stick to revising an old paper that is at least partially in line with my research goals. My undergrad program--film studies--was so new it didn't have a thesis or honors track, and I'm worried that the admissions committee won't know this and will just assume I didn't do a thesis because I wasn't qualified. I really need to do some extra research since I'm pretty sure my original was rather slap-dash, but I'm not sure I'll have too much time before the deadline!

[rems]

What's the word on end notes and footnotes in writing samples? Should we include them because it demonstrates how we're able to utilize them, or is it a useless waste of precious page space that would be better suited to the paper itself? Or do they not count in the page-count? I suppose this is a case-by-case thing, but I was just wondering if anyone had any experience with this..?