Begging for money

[Reinventing]

Some insiders have been helpful in giving me the lowdown on my schools, otherwise, I wouldn't have known. The only thing my department said was basically, "Don't wait for funding from us, go ahead and seek it." And that was because I directly asked them if any was coming, or if the next step was to go and find some. They didn't proactively communicate that information, and I understand why, but it does put us in a bind if we're going by the traditional rules--as do all the regular decision deadlines, without the regular funding. Wishing you luck with all this.

[glasses]

Thanks tons to everyone who responded, making generally perfect sense. I appreciate the comments! And yeah, sonnyday, you're completely right--the reason I brought up the partner, the pets, the background, blah blah, etc., is exactly the reason you point out, and I do understand why people would "go there"--I don't have a problem with the biographical information here so much as the insults from some people to others. The only person I directed the "whose life sucks hardest contest" comment at was liszt85. I took rising_star's comments the same way Tulip_O_Hare did and personally tend to agree, but, as I said, completely understand the very real and pressing need for some financial comfort. In any case, good luck! I hope this works out all for the best for you.

Like sonnyday said, we were not comparing places like Harvard and some community college. We were comparing places that were more or less equal (with obvious little differences) research fits (or else we wouldn't have applied in the first place). Now as much as you talk about long term prospects, its important for some of us to be relatively free of financial trouble, especially in a foreign land, so that we can concentrate on our work. It doesn't help if I have to have worries at the back of my mind about how much I'd have to spend on groceries or how I'd manage in case we accidentally have a baby (we do not believe in abortions and I do not expect somebody to come here and preach me about that) while working on a research problem. Though you have been a legal independent since the age of 15, you do have people in the country you can turn to in times of deep trouble, don't you? Would you have to turn to the streets if you violate terms of a lease because you were short by $100 in one particular month? Do you have friends from whom you can borrow a few hundred bucks to pay unexpectedly for hospital bills for which you simply don't have the savings to fall back on?

So no, I don't agree the least bit with rising star's ignorant generalization. I am passionate about my subject too and am not a moron not to wish to study at the best possible place (solely academic considerations).

liszt85, I really don't want to keep what can only be termed a bitchfight going, but seriously, this is the kind of response that I was reacting adversely to in my post, which many people have since responded to in a way that far surpasses your level of dialogue. Our perspectives differ, and that's fine with me. Please stop lobbing personal questions my way under the entirely inaccurate assumptions that my perspective comes from a place of comfort; I respect your opinions, but am far from respectful of your discourse. (By the way, Tulip_O_Hare is right when he or she responded to your above comments. I completed half of my undergraduate career homeless. My partner and I are still paying hospital bills from three years ago. And no, I don't know people of any remote sense of "means" that could help in a jam, in this country or outside of it, being a first-gen immigrant. All this is not to devalue your experience or to continue this bitchfight, but simply to say that to be honest, you don't know what you're talking about. When it comes to things you can't possibly know, step off.)

Oh, and I'm a she! It struck me that I'm new here and never mentioned that.

[liszt85]

The only person I directed the "whose life sucks hardest contest" comment at was liszt85. I took rising_star's comments the same way Tulip_O_Hare did and personally tend to agree, but, as I said, completely understand the very real and pressing need for some financial comfort. In any case, good luck! I hope this works out all for the best for you.

I completed half of my undergraduate career homeless. My partner and I are still paying hospital bills from three years ago. And no, I don't know people of any remote sense of "means" that could help in a jam, in this country or outside of it, being a first-gen immigrant. All this is not to devalue your experience or to continue this bitchfight, but simply to say that to be honest, you don't know what you're talking about. When it comes to things you can't possibly know, step off.)

Oh, and I'm a she! It struck me that I'm new here and never mentioned that.

Well then, you've just proven my point. I don't want to be "homeless", and I don't want to have all the above worries that you had because it would take my focus away from my work. Why is this so difficult to understand? You should be addressing rising star when you talk about your experiences of having been homeless and stuck with bills from years ago. By tagging my posts as a "whose life sucks hardest contest", you are doing exactly what you accuse me of doing ("insults from 'some people' to others").

[scigrad]

I'm somewhat amused that this whole philosophical argument has been carried out by people who aren't in graduate school. I'm going to voice my opinion and no one is going to like it.

You're sorely out of line if you want to ask a school for more money so you don't have to be "distracted" from your work. There will be plenty of graduate students in your department who work as hard or harder than you who have to PAY to go to school. Perhaps you think there are no graduate students who ever worry about finances or whether they'll have a large unexpected expense? Perhaps you think we are kings among men, with large sacks of gold coins strewn about our mansions. Worrying about finances, bills, your health, and four hundred other things besides research is part of being a graduate student, whether or not you like it. No, it's not cute and it's not a badge of honor, but that's how life is. Did you not read up on average stipends before you decided to throw all your eggs in the grad school basket?

You want to make more money and not have to worry about struggling? Get a job. I'll be watching my checking account balance hoping my landlord won't deposit my rent check until my stipend comes through. I'll be in the lab until 11 PM worrying about how much I spent on lunch today. I'll be with the rest of the grad students who spend too much time working to complain about how little we make. If I gave an offer to a student and they asked for more money I would tell them absolutely not. If I gave an offer to a student and they tried to leverage another offer for more money, I would tell them to not bother joining my group.

edit: i meant eggs, not begs.

[liszt85]

Did you not read up on average stipends before you decided to throw all your begs in the grad school basket?

Ah, one more of those "You have no idea about what grad school is like, what the hell were you thinking while applying?!"

And one more of those "I'm a grad student now, you are only a prospective one.. I sure as hell think my opinion is the right one!"

scigrad, say hello to rising star (another sci grad).

[glasses]

I'm somewhat amused that this whole philosophical argument has been carried out by people who aren't in graduate school. I'm going to voice my opinion and no one is going to like it.

You're sorely out of line if you want to ask a school for more money so you don't have to be "distracted" from your work. There will be plenty of graduate students in your department who work as hard or harder than you who have to PAY to go to school. Perhaps you think there are no graduate students who ever worry about finances or whether they'll have a large unexpected expense? Perhaps you think we are kings among men, with large sacks of gold coins strewn about our mansions. Worrying about finances, bills, your health, and four hundred other things besides research is part of being a graduate student, whether or not you like it. No, it's not cute and it's not a badge of honor, but that's how life is. Did you not read up on average stipends before you decided to throw all your begs in the grad school basket?

You want to make more money and not have to worry about struggling? Get a job. I'll be watching my checking account balance hoping my landlord won't deposit my rent check until my stipend comes through. I'll be in the lab until 11 PM worrying about how much I spent on lunch today. I'll be with the rest of the grad students who spend too much time working to complain about how little we make. If I gave an offer to a student and they asked for more money I would tell them absolutely not. If I gave an offer to a student and they tried to leverage another offer for more money, I would tell them to not bother joining my group.

For what it's worth, I heard something very similar--pretty much identical, really, except I think she threw in a "so suck it or get out" --from a professor at my undergrad college who was giving a "what to expect and how to deal with it" kind of lecture about grad school. So, you're right, I'm not in grad school yet, but regardless, I don't dislike what you're saying.

[scigrad]

Ah, one more of those "You have no idea about what grad school is like, what the hell were you thinking while applying?!"

I never said this. Did you do your due diligence before you applied?

And one more of those "I'm a grad student now, you are only a prospective one.. I sure as hell think my opinion is the right one!"

I don't really know what to tell you. You have this idea that you need more money so you can only focus on your research. Have you ever spent a week with a graduate student? A year? Two years? There's not a grad student I know who doesn't have worries outside of their research, and to think you deserve this luxury is mildly offensive. People who have passed their qualification exams already watch their bank accounts dwindling and have just had their funding pulled out from under them. If you can't deal with the worries and the work for a microscopic salary, then you're barking up the wrong tree.

[liszt85]

I never said this. Did you do your due diligence before you applied?

I don't really know what to tell you. You have this idea that you need more money so you can only focus on your research. Have you ever spent a week with a graduate student? A year? Two years? There's not a grad student I know who doesn't have worries outside of their research, and to think you deserve this luxury is mildly offensive. People who have passed their qualification exams already watch their bank accounts dwindling and have just had their funding pulled out from under them. If you can't deal with the worries and the work for a microscopic salary, then you're barking up the wrong tree.

Whoever you are, you don't seem to comprehend that people come from different backgrounds and have different needs and expectations. I would have loved to go hungry for a few days if I got to do what I love at the best place possible but I simply am not willing to make my spouse go through any of that. Get that into your head. As for barking up the wrong tree and "have you spent any years with grad students?", this is exactly the kind of condescending attitude I was talking about. I come from a country where more than 25% of its population earns less than the poverty threshold of $0.4 a day. I've probably seen people go through worse shit than you have but I didn't ever bring it up here (until now) to argue that I was better prepared for eventualities, did I? We have power shortages here that you cannot imagine living with.. I have studied under candle light with no ceiling fans or anything for respite at 40 deg celisius heat for 10 consecutive days for board examinations due to a huge power shortage. I've spent two years working on research problems and a professor and two graduate students are co authors on my first authored paper. I've stayed in a room where there is just about space for a small single bed for five years. I spend less than $30 a month on food and other expenses (yes the cost of living here is low but do your research and you'll see that its an amount that is pretty low even for this country). I'm not going to try and convince any of you anymore about my view of things.. stay in your well believing that you're the only ones who've done your homework regarding grad school and probably the only ones who are passionate about their subjects and the only ones who think money should never even figure in a decision making process when it comes to deciding which school to attend.

I plan to have fun with work as well as my short extra curricular life here on earth and I also want to make sure I don't trouble the people I love while doing that. That may be hard for you to digest and you may revel in boasting to people about your passion for the subject and how you gave up $5K a year to do what you wanted to do most.. good luck with that! There are cultural differences that some of you won't understand. All I asked you was not to judge people and not to preach to them and assume they hadn't done their homework and didn't want to pursue a PhD with the same enthusiasm as you seem to do. You seem to be opaque to all of these factors. I'm not going to respond to your ill informed comments about this issue anymore.

[TulipOHare]

cough cough Godwin's Law cough cough

[piper]

Can I just straight up ask a financial aid person or would that be dumb?

What's the harm in asking? The worst they could say is no.

[liszt85]

I decided to peek into this thread for some advice, but got distracted by your posts. You should go where ever is best for you. Some people want to go where they will get the "best" education, regardless of expense. Some people would rather go somewhere where they can be more financially stable, even if the program isn't as good. You seem to resent anyone who picked the first, which is ridiculous.

And you cannot jump on people for saying you should have planned in advance for this. It isn't some big secret to how much school costs or how much aid you're likely to get. It isn't wrong of you to ask for aid, but it is wrong of you to assume it is your graduate program's responsibility to support your wife. You can rightly be disappointed they couldn't help you, but you cannot rightly be angry with them. The economy is bad and adding support so people can bring their spouses would be prohibitively expensive. If you had written me an emailing saying you need more money to support your wife (and I work in higher ed administration now), I would have sent you a similar email to the one you received.

Now for my question, I applied to master's programs and got in to two. I got awarded money from the one I want to go to more (yay!), but it is private and super expensive. I was thinking about asking if they could give me more money. I do not have anything to leverage (well, the other school is public so would potentially cost less my second year). Can I just straight up ask a financial aid person or would that be dumb? To give some more information, I got 20k/year, but the tuition is 36k/year (plus living expenses, though I am not as concerned about those, because I am bringing my SO who will be working full time, hopefully).

When did I say that it was the school's responsibility to take care of my wife? When was I angry with a school?! I was only contemplating about whether I should accept a school's offer where the research fit was not as good as another which offered lesser money. Also, the school which sent me that reply understands fully about my commitment. They didn't make wise ass comments like the ones that were made on this thread. I've been in touch with them for months, discussing their work and sharing mine and we're both interested in working with each other. Now this other school offered an amount that was much more competitive in the context of the cost of living in that particular city. Though the research fit is not AS GOOD as the other, it still is a great place to study. Now it is at this juncture that these people come in and say "Look at us! We know what we're doing. We rejected a school that offered $5K more than the other because we only cared about our research.. we are the real deal. Did you even do your homework before you applied? Have you spent even one year with a real grad student? You have no idea what you're getting into" It was this tone that I took offense to.

Good for you that your SO can work full time. I'm trying to find out if I can study on a J1 (so that my SO can work on her J2 visa) but the consulate in my country has put severe restrictions on those kinds of visas. The safer bet is to apply for F1 (but my SO would not be allowed to work on her F2) because if my J1 application is rejected, I can as well forget about grad school. I used up my last resources to apply. I'm in no mood to listen to condescending ignorant people passing comments on issues they have no clue about.

I'm probably dropping my PhD plans to go for a MS first. Its fully funded. I like the program but the decision is also because its only a 2 year commitment. In case we're not able to manage our finances, she would go back to my country and we're prepared to live separate for 2 years if that's what it takes. It will be extremely hard. Some of you talk of "breaking up with my SO because a long distance relationship is impossible". I don't come out here passing a judgment on your virtues. I don't say "You don't deserve to be in a relationship if that's your attitude". I understand that we have cultural differences that make you say the things that you do and make me say the things that I do. I've been with my girlfriend for 3 years now and we meet once or twice a year. We're getting married this June. We're prepared to do the long distance thing for a little longer if that's the sacrifice we have to make (I'm lucky to have her, she understands how much my academic interests matter to me). So its highly irritating to see people assuming that I'm looking to lead some kind of luxurious life.

[Reinventing]

One thing I've learned about this whole process is that there are lots of different "realities" of the graduate school experience. Even on the same campus. Especially on different campuses. And even moreso in different financial times (what we're dealing with now is quite unique).

[sonnyday]

cough cough Godwin's Law cough cough

LOL!

No I don't think that will be happening here. (I hope)

[sonnyday]

Now for my question, I applied to master's programs and got in to two. I got awarded money from the one I want to go to more (yay!), but it is private and super expensive. I was thinking about asking if they could give me more money. I do not have anything to leverage (well, the other school is public so would potentially cost less my second year). Can I just straight up ask a financial aid person or would that be dumb? To give some more information, I got 20k/year, but the tuition is 36k/year (plus living expenses, though I am not as concerned about those, because I am bringing my SO who will be working full time, hopefully).

I think that since this is a Master's program (and you are generally allowed to work in a masters program) this may be a good offer. Plus, most people don't get funded for a masters from what I've heard. But I would definitely ask and see--since its a private school they might be more flexible with funding. You should also ask if there are other departmental/school awards that can be applied for throughout the year or even if there is a position you can work at the school that will give you tuition remission on the rest of what you owe.

[Snowden12]

Ahem...all arguing aside, has anyone learned if the begging worked or not? I haven''t heard back on my financial offer yet, but I'm going to beg regardless if it might be fruitful. Any updates?

[sonnyday]

Ahem...all arguing aside, has anyone learned if the begging worked or not? I haven''t heard back on my financial offer yet, but I'm going to beg regardless if it might be fruitful. Any updates?

It hasn't worked for me. But I've heard that if you wait, more people than they expected might drop out and they may be able to up the offer to retain you.

I doubt that will happen in my case, but it I guess it happens to some people.

[rising_star]

Now for my question, I applied to master's programs and got in to two. I got awarded money from the one I want to go to more (yay!), but it is private and super expensive. I was thinking about asking if they could give me more money. I do not have anything to leverage (well, the other school is public so would potentially cost less my second year). Can I just straight up ask a financial aid person or would that be dumb? To give some more information, I got 20k/year, but the tuition is 36k/year (plus living expenses, though I am not as concerned about those, because I am bringing my SO who will be working full time, hopefully).

I wouldn't call the financial aid office of the university. I'd contact the program's director of graduate studies instead. Definitely search the university website to see if there are any programs, scholarships, assistantships, etc. that you might be eligible for.

scigrad, say hello to rising star (another sci grad).

When did I become a male science grad? I'm a female graduate student, not in the sciences.

I never meant to be condescending but, quite frankly, it's annoying to hear people expecting schools to come up with more money for them because of their particular circumstances and without consideration of whether the school/department is even capable of doing so. I personally am frustrated that my program has cut the incoming class in half in order to have enough funding for current students, given the budget climate in our state and at the university. If people even acknowledged that their could be reasons besides someone being mean to them for not getting more money when asking, I wouldn't address it ever again. But you know what? I keep reading over and over how people are offended that X program didn't offer them more money to match Y but Z did. Guess what? X, Y, and Z are likely not in the same financial position. And, this whole budget thing is affecting schools from the top down (have you heard about the cutbacks at Princeton and Harvard? They sound similar to those at state schools.)

Liszt85, do you think that the universities should set stipend amounts based on age, gender, marital status, number of dependents, number of pets, what kind of housing you're comfortable in, etc.? I would argue that they shouldn't since that would be discriminatory. So, in a way, asking for more money because you're married is doing that. Do you see my point (even if you don't agree with it, and I suspect you don't)? No, our experiences are not the same as yours. If you don't want the perspective of others, don't ask, don't comment, and don't reply. Deliberately misreading my comments then saying I lack emotional intelligence because I don't think universities should bend over backwards because your wife may not be able to work in the US shows your immaturity.

At the end of the day, I think someone did accurately represent what I said. Academe is a marathon, not a race. Sometimes you have to make short term sacrifices for long term gains. As I said (possibly 3 times?), I went with the program that offered me the most for the future. I have an amazing advisor and that's worth all the things I've had to sacrifice for the next four years. Why? Because I know that four years from now, I'll be in a fantastic position to get a job with a track record of publications, presentations, and securing external funding. To me, those things are the most important. I need to be competitive in what will be a brutal job market. Everyone will be dealing with that. So, as I've said before, you need to make a decision now that will put you in the best position to have the career that you want. I know what I need to do to get a job where I want to work and I chose a PhD program based on that. Do you know what you need to do? If so, what are you willing to sacrifice to do it? Graduate school is all about sacrifices and that starts even before you enroll, as I'm sure you're seeing. Maybe this sounds mean but, it's also reality. If you aren't prepared to make any sacrifices, maybe you need to re-apply next year and hope for better offers.

Sadly, this is probably very true for many schools. I guess it would help if they conveyed that to students though, because I've heard from too many faculty (including faculty at the exact school I was trying to bargain with--a person on the adcom) that I should try to negotiate and that they can be flexible in the long run.

I don't always think faculty realize what the real deal is, especially if they don't read all their emails or attend faculty meetings. I think within my own department there are varying degrees of awareness as to what the financial outlook in our department and at the university is. This is why I recommend being in contact directly with the Director of Graduate Studies at the program, as that person will likely know much more than your potential advisor(s) will.

[liszt85]

Do yourself a favor and take this above advice to heart. I wanted to say the exact same thing to you. You seemed to suggest that money doesn't matter while making a decision about which school to attend and you did it in a condescending tone that at least one other person noticed here. Why do you have one set of rules for yourself and another set while giving "advice" to people like me?

I never meant to be condescending but, quite frankly, it's annoying to hear people expecting schools to come up with more money for them because of their particular circumstances and without consideration of whether the school/department is even capable of doing so.

What is your problem? I asked a program if they had any way to give me some extra money maybe in the summers in exchange for more work that I might be willing to put in. I got a negative reply and due to my frustration at not being able to go where my research fit is best due to reasons that you, by now I'm convinced, wouldn't be able to fathom or respect, I posted here AS A REPLY to somebody else who posted about schools that offer more money if they really wanted you. You decided to then trot in here and give me a lesson on morality which I did not appreciate and was vocal about the exception that I took to that.

I personally am frustrated that my program has cut the incoming class in half in order to have enough funding for current students, given the budget climate in our state and at the university.

Ah, I now see where that cockiness came from.

Liszt85, do you think that the universities should set stipend amounts based on age, gender, marital status, number of dependents, number of pets, what kind of housing you're comfortable in, etc.? I would argue that they shouldn't since that would be discriminatory. So, in a way, asking for more money because you're married is doing that.

Yes, it would be discriminatory but some of these schools offer far too less. I think they should keep in mind the fact that international students who come there with spouses have to support one more person off this meager stipend. Since you start grad school at the age of 23-24 and have to stay there for 5-6 years, until the age of about 29, I think its unfair on their part not to assume such needs but of course, their obligation goes only as far as supporting their student is considered but that would have been alright had the US government not had all these restrictions on the F2 visa. Now I'm pretty sure none of this is registering but I had to give it a shot anyway. I see that you've given advice earlier to people who asked for advice on how to go about asking schools for more money without sounding like an ass. So I guess you were in between one of your mood swings at that time and you've also given me a partial explanation (though you did not intend to) when you talked about your frustrations with your own school's policies due to the present economic crisis.

Do you know what you need to do? If so, what are you willing to sacrifice to do it? Graduate school is all about sacrifices and that starts even before you enroll, as I'm sure you're seeing. Maybe this sounds mean but, it's also reality. If you aren't prepared to make any sacrifices, maybe you need to re-apply next year and hope for better offers.

What you still don't understand is I'm prepared to make sacrifices, more than what you probably can imagine, but I'm not prepared to demand that my wife goes through all of that too. I can live off ramen, no big deal. I simply refuse to ask her to do that too. I've known what I wanted to do since I was 12. I'm not going to, as you've time and again done here, try and convince people that my decisions and choices have been the best and that this is the only way to go about choosing where to study and how to live life. I've just got this to tell you, practice what you preach. You've again come out with a lot of advice regarding my condescending tone, about how little I know about your experiences, etc. Sorry I assumed you to be a guy. You'll make one insanely assertive and aggressive woman, I'll tell you that

[fuzzylogician]

liszt85 and rising_star, you two seriously need to stop this argument. Neither of you is going to convince the other, but maybe you could agree to disagree..?

Ahem...all arguing aside, has anyone learned if the begging worked or not? I haven''t heard back on my financial offer yet, but I'm going to beg regardless if it might be fruitful. Any updates?

You might as well give it a shot, what have you got to lose? It worked for me with some schools, but unfortunately not with my top choices. But if your programs want you badly enough, maybe you'll succeed. It's at least worth a try.

[rising_star]

Yes, it would be discriminatory but some of these schools offer far too less. I think they should keep in mind the fact that international students who come there with spouses have to support one more person off this meager stipend. Since you start grad school at the age of 23-24 and have to stay there for 5-6 years, until the age of about 29, I think its unfair on their part not to assume such needs but of course, their obligation goes only as far as supporting their student is considered but that would have been alright had the US government not had all these restrictions on the F2 visa. Now I'm pretty sure none of this is registering but I had to give it a shot anyway. I see that you've given advice earlier to people who asked for advice on how to go about asking schools for more money without sounding like an ass. So I guess you were in between one of your mood swings at that time and you've also given me a partial explanation (though you did not intend to) when you talked about your frustrations with your own school's policies due to the present economic crisis.

I assume "mood swings" have entered the conversation since I've said I'm a woman. Before it was debating the merits of what I had to say, now you've resorted to these juvenile antics. *sigh* Takes all the fun out of what had been an interesting debate. My position here, and elsewhere, has been that debating facts is interesting, debating opinions is only sometimes worthwhile, and namecalling is always unacceptable. So try to avoid saying to me, or anyone else, that they would "make one...woman" or that their "mood swings" are the only reason for what they write. In a moment of being a mod, I will remind you that such language is inappropriate and will probably result in warnings in the future.

But, in response to your argument about the stipend, do you think married international students should get more funding than US students with dependents? What about single US students with a dependent of 15 vs a single US student with an infant? Should the married international student with children get even more money? Do you see how this would be a neverending conversation? Universities are under no financial obligation to support anyone. They choose to offer support to certain students based on their qualifications in the form of scholarships, assistantships, and fellowships. They then offer students support based on the expectation that they will support themselves on the stipend. Yes, the circumstances are different for those on F2 visas but they are also different for those with disabilities, with young children, with sick relatives, with a spouse with disabilities, etc. Do you see that or do you think only those with F2 visas should get more money? And, if so, why?

What you still don't understand is I'm prepared to make sacrifices, more than what you probably can imagine, but I'm not prepared to demand that my wife goes through all of that too. I can live off ramen, no big deal. I simply refuse to ask her to do that too. I've known what I wanted to do since I was 12. I'm not going to, as you've time and again done here, try and convince people that my decisions and choices have been the best and that this is the only way to go about choosing where to study and how to live life.

For the record, I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm trying to share my experience. If you think that isn't the point of this forum, I'm afraid bgk has totally messed up somewhere along the line, at least when it comes to explaining the purpose of this site. Obviously our perspectives are totally different. It seems to me like your pride may be part of the problem (in that you aren't going to ask your wife to make sacrifices on your behalf). There's nothing anyone can do to help you with that. And no, I don't mean that to be mean. I just mean that if someone else has to make some sacrifices for you to get what you want, and that person loves you, the worst that can happen if you ask is that s/he will say no. (Of course there could be cultural norms/practices that prevent you from asking, in which case I can understand.)

You'll make one insanely assertive and aggressive woman, I'll tell you that

That language is wholy inappropriate. I already AM a woman, so who is supposed to be making me one?

You might as well give it a shot, what have you got to lose? It worked for me with some schools, but unfortunately not with my top choices. But if your programs want you badly enough, maybe you'll succeed. It's at least worth a try.

I don't know many programs in the country in my field that are in a position to do that now, because, as I've said before, commitments are to current students and budgets are tight. Another factor, as previously mentioned, is that many programs try to pay all students the same amount so that there aren't inequities among students, which would of course make it difficult for one student to beg/negotiate/barter for more money. Besides just asking for money, you could find out if additional part-time employment on campus is allowed (and, if so, seek easy, high-paying jobs), if there are scholarships for graduate students (through the department, the college/school, the university, or the discipline or sub-discipline) that you might be eligible for.

[liszt85]

I was able to negotiate for I think a very small amount more once, but that was three years ago. And really, the amount was something like $1000, which I needed because I owned nothing other than clothes at the time.

So yea, its fair when you ask schools for money and yes of course, fairness is a function of time and it was okay for you to do so because it was three years ago. I'll take fuzzylogician's advice here. Looks like we just have to agree to disagree. The discussion ends here. The comment about mood swings was uncalled for and I apologize. I was just pissed off that you applied different sets of rules to your situation and mine (and continue to do so).

I could argue that you need nothing more than clothes and food (just as you have been arguing all along). You also seem to bring in questions of love in my relationship with my SO just because I refuse to ask her to make sacrifices which involve the possibility of her having to return to our country due to my inability to look after her basic needs and you also seem to acknowledge cultural differences that might prevent me from asking. I'm terribly confused and guess this is going nowhere. Great to hear that your parents made sacrifices for each other. Feel free to warn me within your powers as a mod but you should take a look at your own posts too sometimes.

By the way, just to let you know, I am aware of the various different opportunities that might exist for extra employment and I had enquired about all such possibilities and was strictly forbidden by the department not to take up even a few hours of extra work even while being supported on a fellowship (legally I'm entitled to 20hrs per week of work but their demand is a fair one too keeping in mind that they offered me the fellowship so that I could concentrate on my coursework in the first year and on my dissertation in the fifth year). It is only after all such research did I ask them if I could somehow get some additional funds during the summer in exchange for any extra work that I might be able to do for the department. I'm still perplexed as to how this would be unfair to other students. This particular department I'm talking about accepts 1 or 2 people a year. I can understand your point about being fair if the cohort is made up of people from different diverse backgrounds, from different countries, having various different needs.

I almost forgot that I had decided not to continue this discussion. It ends here.

[liszt85]

You might as well give it a shot, what have you got to lose? It worked for me with some schools, but unfortunately not with my top choices. But if your programs want you badly enough, maybe you'll succeed. It's at least worth a try.

According to popular opinion here, you should hang your head in shame for what you did and for what you just said. :|

[fuzzylogician]

That's your idea of not continuing the discussion? :wink:

I think we can agree that it's not legitimate to expect increased funding or any other privileges because you are married/international/have children/in debt/disabled/fill in the blank. You shouldn't assume that you deserve more because you have a special situation--everybody has special situations and difficulties in their lives and schools cannot and should not be expected to be responsible for them (this is a general remark, liszt85, I'm not suggesting that you thought that or wrote anything to the extent in this thread!).

But it is legitimate to contact a school and try to get it to increase your funding package (to compete with another offer or suchlike). If a school likes you badly enough, it might offer you more funding to lure you over. I don't think anyone in this thread objected to that or found it shameful in any way.

[sonnyday]

I think we can agree that it's not legitimate to expect increased funding or any other privileges because you are married/international/have children/in debt/disabled/fill in the blank. You shouldn't assume that you deserve more because you have a special situation--everybody has special situations and difficulties in their lives and schools cannot and should not be expected to be responsible for them (this is a general remark, liszt85, I'm not suggesting that you thought that or wrote anything to the extent in this thread!).

But it is legitimate to contact a school and try to get it to increase your funding package (to compete with another offer or suchlike). If a school likes you badly enough, it might offer you more funding to lure you over. I don't think anyone in this thread objected to that or found it shameful in any way.

I second this, and think its a good wrap up.

The whole situation sucks (For both schools and students/applicants) and its okay to try to negotiate funding but we should also keep in mind other more important variables than funding in our decisions like the faculty and strength of program. Schools should try their best to make sure you can live comfortably while finishing a Ph.D program on a timely basis, but students should also realize that no one's case is special over others and also that not everyone is on an equal playing field. Regardless, we all make due with what cards we're given.

Lisz, I generally understand your argument, but the cattiness and particularly the chauvinist jabs about rising's "mood swings" and gender are a huge no-no, IMO. You are being just as condescending as anyone else.

[liszt85]

Lisz, I generally understand your argument, but the cattiness and particularly the chauvinist jabs about rising's "mood swings" and gender are a huge no-no, IMO. You are being just as condescending as anyone else.

I agree and I apologized to rising star about that particular comment in the previous post. I even told rising star that she and I were acting in very similar ways in another post of mine (as far as being condescending was concerned). Comments like that just come from nowhere sometimes. I'm sure we have such moments sometimes that we regret later. That was one such moment for me.

There are however people in here who've talked about people that ask for more money not being prepared well enough for the difficulties that accompany grad school. I continue being miffed about that. This is the very process of getting prepared! I asked because I had to, got denied. What's the big deal?! I never once said I deserved more money because of my situation, I was only trying to see if they had money to offer me in exchange for extra work. I have no idea how that translates to "You're barking up the wrong tree, have you any idea about what grad school is like?"