Reinventing

It is a somewhat strange question. Most people would not do both a Master's in Higher Ed and an MBA. It does not make much sense, and I have never seen a top-tier, dual-degree program combining these. You would have to do them separately, and so most people choose to do one or the other. If employment stats and salary are the primary concern, a top-tier MBA might fit the bill. If you want to work in a university, a degree in higher ed is usually the best choice, unless you want to work in a business or finance role/program, and then an MBA could be an asset. Rankings on top-tier MBA programs are easy to find, and generally are released each spring through US News, Businessweek, FT, etc. Master's-level education programs do not track employment statistics like MBA programs do. AACSB is the organization that accredits MBA programs. All good schools will have this. For education, CACREP accredits some programs; but if you go to a reputable school (state school or Ivy), you don't need to worry too much about accreditation unless you want to do counseling work. Those jobs do seem to request CACREP or other accreditation. As for MS, MEd, and MA, there's usually very little distinction. I think most programs for higher education are MEd programs, and in some cases there are reasons why a program is classified as an MS or MA program (MS sometimes means more stats/tech classes, MA sometimes fewer stats classes; but there's no hard-and-fast rule). No one will tell you what your likelihood of getting a job is based on a bunch of statistics. No school can promise to employ you after you graduate. Students at top schools may have an easier time getting jobs, and may have access to different types of roles, but your ability to get a job depends greatly on a number of factors, including your career interests, work experience, education, fit with the jobs you apply for, and the level of effort you put into networking and your job search. Most people select a program based on things like reputation of the school, reputation (and content) of the program, faculty research areas, research opportunities, fit/community, strong alumni network, cost, location, etc. But no one can come up with a list of the best schools for you to apply to. You could just pick the top 10 from the US News rankings if you want to make it really easy, or go through the spreadsheet and pick those with the top 10 highest employment figures, but you'll be ignoring whether the program is really a good fit for you. I wouldn't leave the decision up to statistics, if I were you. You have to do the research.

Vlad17, are you more interested in quant/analytical-focused roles or strategic roles? MSF is an easier sell for quant/analytical roles, MBA for strategic roles (as well as other roles, depending on your academic background). Given your work background, if you are considering more strategic roles, I would call UVa and ask to talk with a few finance-focused candidates from the Class of 2011. UVa will open a lot of doors in general, but it is expensive, and you need to know whether hiring companies will be receptive to your background as a transition to banking or asset management. The bar is high. Also figure out if there are any grads from BC working in roles or with companies you are interested in. Try posting to business forums. There aren't always a lot of business applicants here.

I'm not knocking anyone who says HKS has value, but you have to be sure to make the decision that is best for you and your circumstances. You'll be the one paying the bill. I think you are right to consider the particular nature of your degree (which is not business, medicine, or law), and the nature of this program (something of a money-maker for the college). As others have said, what you are buying in this circumstance is the brand, and possibly a network and connections. You have to consider whether this is the right environment for you, whether this brand will have a higher resonance with the particular employers you are targeting, and where you want to live afterward. In some markets, or even with some organizations, Duke or a well-known regional could work in your favor. In general, if you expect you might be making $60k, you don't want to have more than that in total ed loans. I know some people trust strongly in the brand, and it does carry weight, but I think you have to carefully consider how important it is to you and your situation. You have to be the filter and the ultimate decision-maker about what is best for you.

With that level of debt, your total monthly loan payments would be around $1,000, right? And with interest, you might actually end up paying back closer to $125,000 in the end. I would only take on that level of debt if I couldn't live doing something else, and would be miserable every day of my life if I weren't doing this kind of work, even though it meant I'd have to live with 10-15 years of incredible financial stress. And knowing what I know now, if I actually had that perspective, I would talk to a lot of people in the field to learn about the realities of that work, do extensive research on salaries and opportunities, and invest time and/or money in career counseling with a reputable counselor to make sure I was really being honest with myself about the other opportunities in life. There are plenty of people who get into these schools who don't have a concept that $100,000 (or $125,000) is actually a huge amount of money to a lot of people. There are others who have not yet experienced loan repayment. Taking the loans is much easier and quicker than paying them back. There's also a lot of hype that "education debt is good debt." But take it with a grain of salt. Education is much more expensive than it was for previous generations, a large return on the investment is not guaranteed by any stretch, and ed debt never goes away (as you know, it can't be discharged by bankuptcy). Personally, I would not do this. Crunch the numbers and see if it's worth it to you. That's really what it comes down to. But if you wanted to hear from someone who says, "That's crazy. Unconscionable, even," well, I'll say it. I would recommend trying to keep the education debt less than 10% of your total expected yearly pay (before taxes). So if you expect to get a job offer for $50k, keep your monthly debt bill at $500 a month (this means you could probably afford to accumulate $50k of debt total between your two degrees, grad and undergrad). $500 a month will still be quite a dent (you probably won't be eating out, buying nice clothes, or going on vacation for a while), but it will be manageable. Any more than that probably wouldn't be worth the financial stress level. I have known several people who got into Ivies and turned them down to avoid putting themselves in financial dire straits. They accepted lesser schools with funding and are doing quite well. I also know a few Ivy grads, and they are pretty candid about the obnoxious and limiting level of their debt load.

I wonder if it's possible your school sent the wrong transcript. If not, and you are ready to burn your bridges with this school, I like this idea: You met your end of the bargain. I don't see why their mistake should cost you.

I think it's all about the school/environment. I went to undergrad at a place where staffers took any classes they wanted to take, and their bosses were excited to announce So-and-so was getting a master's degree. I was expecting to find the same experience at the universities where I have worked; but I've ended up in places that are short-staffed, and where the bosses seem to resent (or don't understand) staff pursuing degrees. Hmm, this reminds me, one of the schools I applied to for graduate studies actually asked if I planned to become a full-time employee. I wonder if that should concern me.

I've worked at several universities, and my experience (and the experience of my friends/co-workers) has not been the same. I've commonly seen: 50-65 hour weeks Low pay and long commutes (unable to afford even the smallest apartment nearby) Late work hours that interfere with evening classes Not being allowed to take classes certain semesters (making it hard or impossible to finish degree on time) Not being allowed to take a class during the day, one day a week, even if you make up the hours later Campuses that only allow full-time students to enroll in certain programs Bosses getting angry about missing several hours of work to take a mid-term, a final or to give a presentation Jealous co-workers who complain to the boss if your class does interfere with work So, in general, a lack of flexibility and cooperation that I have heard exists in some environments for people pursuing a master's degree. In my own case, one of the degree programs I was targeting was cancelled a month after I started work at one university. And at another school, the boss had to approve the degree program and plan first, which severely limited my options, and completely ruled out any programs on campus (and would have required an additional hour-long commute to a partner college). I keep hoping I'll find a place where I can actually take advantage of the education benefit, but the process has not been as smooth as I hoped. In my case, I've learned not to assume it will be so straightforward at every university, and to be more strategic the next time around. Oh, and have a back-up plan or two, as well. It's frustrating when I reflect on how much I have give up financially, with some expectation of this benefit.

Yes, I'm looking into state schools, as well as colleges where I might be able to work and pursue a master's degree at the same time. From my experience, and that of several friends in higher ed, I've learned the latter can be complicated; but it's also probably the best financial option, and I continue to explore ways to make this happen.

Thanks, I will keep at it. I'm not dealing with family issues anymore, so that makes it a little easier, but the financial side of this is big. Tuition has doubled since I first started saving. On those days when I feel like the grad school clock is ticking somewhere far behind me in the past, it helps to hear that others in similar situations (where they delayed grad school) have found a way to make it happen, and it's not just some impossible idea I'm holding onto.

To add another wrinkle, I gave up an offer for an SO that I couldn't live without. I was definitely more in love with the SO. But SO did not love me as much. We were married, so I did have some expectations that SO and I were in this for the long haul. I turned down the offer, and he told me he wanted out 2 months later. Turns out he knew he was going to do this months before. Major stinker. A blanket statement, but I'll say it anyway: If you're in your 20s, be as realistic as you can about your relationship, and try to get your SO to do that as well--relationships and people change a lot during this stage of life.

You are my hero, Golden Monkey. I have always wanted to complete a graduate degree, and have applied several times already, but funding and family issues have been a problem. I'm nearing 40 and have been wondering if I should just give up. I have held a couple positions at universities, but as luck would have it, pursuing a degree that way has not worked out for me either (everything from degree programs being cancelled shortly after I started work to having bosses who didn't support their staff doing graduate degrees). I'm now really looking at how else I can make this happen, and it seems that even though you took some risks, you figured out a way to make it work. I have some renewed hope.

Congratulations--I'm glad things worked out. If it makes you feel any better, having been on both sides of that fence, many schools are deciding not to allow deferrals, especially where funding is involved. You have to keep in mind the impact of your deferral. It makes things more complicated for the school. These days, you never know what is going to happen with budgets, and if you'll have money to give next year. A professor may want you for a certain project they are doing right now, and won't need you later. They may also have specific goals for a certain class (certain size, certain distributions). Many students who defer do decide not to attend. The administrative people are not trying to make it more difficult, they just have a different perspective, goal, and responsibility in the situation. But like I said, I'm glad it all came to a happy conclusion!

He applied there "just in case something happened between us?" Big. red. flag. Did you apply somewhere "just in case something happened between you two"? My guess is no, which is why I'm worried you two might not be on the same page. I think men and women may approach these decisions from different perspectives. Many women would avoid making a decision that would be detrimental to the relationship, even if it means they need to sacrifice in other areas of their lives. But I often see men do whatever is best for them, regardless of what happens in the relationship. It wouldn't be unusual for a man to decide to see what's out there, after many years in a long-term relationship (especially if he's never had other significant relationships), and they don't usually share that information with their significant other. I hope that's not what's going on.

My thoughts went to my own experience. I chose a school to be with my significant other, and two months later, the relationship (a serious, long-term, committed one) was in the can. And I saw it happen to others' relationships, too, and in pretty short order. It's a really tough call, just know that anything can happen. It could work out, it could not--and would that change your perspective?

I think you need to step back and re-evaluate things, not just go with the momentum, because as you said, significant elements of the situation have changed for you. Going because you don't know what else to do or because your spouse thinks you should: these are not the best reasons to get into debt, even for education. There are other things out there, and there may also be a good option in working and applying again in a few years, if you still want to go.

robot_hamster, many schools have much less money to give away now. It could be that they wanted to encourage more people to apply and attend so that they could 1) cherry-pick applicants and 2) up their student population. Their "need" for more graduate students doesn't necessarily mean they need them to take all their full-funding offers, if you know what I mean.

Another contribution from Thomas H. Benton, published today: The Big Lie About the 'Life of the Mind' http://chronicle.com/article/The-Big-Lie-About-the-Life-of/63937/

I hope my statement doesn't come off as a judgment. Obviously, everyone makes their own decision on this. I just think not everyone realizes what it will mean for them to pay off a large debt. There's a lot of "just do it!" Kool-aid out there, and while I love education and wish everyone could have the best one possible, I realize it's an expense just like anything else. And it has become much more expensive than it was for previous generations. On the far side, I've seen people go on the 30-year repayment plan or live what I would consider a very restrictive lifestyle (and I live pretty minimally myself--no car, no kids). If someone wants to take out loans, realizes what it will mean financially, and is prepared to make the sacrifice, then great. It's the people who hear the call, but are totally blindsided by the debt and what it will mean for their life (at a point where they may not even have thought much about their futures) that I feel for. I've had some pushback on this opinion, of course, but I honestly can't imagine why. I'm stuck wondering if these people are just financially solid enough that they can't imagine the struggle some people will go through to afford the degree; or if they haven't sat down and done the math; or maybe they're lucky people who can work 20 hours a day whenever they have to, to pay off the debt (I admire them, but definitely could not do that and still be coherent). Anyway, I have to side with twocosmicfish: I think in many fields, funding is a vote of confidence in your potential. To me, the naïveté is not understanding that, and going deep into debt anyway.

People who go into the humanities should also consider the financial impact--in fact, they should consider it more. Just because your goals are lofty doesn't mean you shouldn't look at the price tag. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. Simple as that. It's why Thomas H. Benton says, "Graduate School in the Humanities: Just Don't Go." His articles on this topic are great, for anyone who hasn't read them (they're available at the Chronicle of Higher Education).

I think a lot of people see the deck stacked against them when considering unfunded academic degrees. For example, they're easily $250-500k in the hole by just taking the time away from the working world to do the PhD. Then at least $50-100k in debt for doing the PhD. And usually at the point in their life where investing earnings has the potential to yield the highest return for retirement--and when many are building a nest egg. All the debt and lost income during this time essentially equates to $10-20k less per year in real earnings once you get the PhD (or $300k-$600k over your working lifetime); which, if you're working in your field of interest, might be worth it. If you're lucky enough to be making $10-20k more than what you need to live on.

Here are some websites I found helpful in researching different programs (in addition to Google searches): http://www.myacpa.org/c12/selecting.htm http://www.cacrep.org/directory/directory.cfm (includes counseling progs as well as student affairs) http://studentaffairs.com/web/ (also has helpful info like student affairs professional profiles, etc) Another site with some basic info, particulary if you are also considering a counseling degree as a possible alternative to a higher ed or student affairs master's degree: http://www.counseling.org/Students/GraduatePrograms/TP/Home/CT2.aspx For doing research on jobs/reading job postings: http://www.higheredjobs.com http://jobs.chronicle.com/section/Jobs/61/

I'm in this boat as well. I applied last year, and am considering a second go-round. I sent you a message.

Translation: Apply first, then maybe we'll talk. Until you get in, it's nice that you're interested; but we both might be wasting our time. Thanks!

I've found shopping in Cambridge/Boston to be a bit of a challenge. If you have a chance to shop in the 'burbs outside of town or in your hometown (if you head back at Thanksgiving, for example), it might save you some headaches. I do a lot of catalog/internet shopping.

FuzzyLogician, Filene's Basement (green line, Boylston St) can be a good place to pick up some items cheap. Or Goodwill in Davis Sq. Even Sears at C-Side. Definitely, definitely get good boots when you see them (waterproof is even better because the rain gutters back up when it snows). Payless (a couple nearby) usually has some cheap/decent options. Wait--you can afford furniture?