M.T.S or S.T.M programs

[kareniskimova]

Hi there,

I have been researching for a master's degree leading to a PhD in the near future. Now I am hesitating on either applying for M. Div or MTS or STM. One of the professors suggested me to go for M. Div though I don't feel that ordination is my call. I don't actually quite understand the system of MTS or STM. According to the description of degree programs on the website of BU, it seems that STM is more advanced. But still I am confused.

Here is my background: Bachelor of philosophy and MA in religious studies in China and MA in theological studies in Hong Kong. And now I am mainly focusing on the study of Hebrew Bible.

I am looking to apply for Emory, Boston University, Boston College, and some seminaries like Lutheran theological seminary and even Concordia Fort Wayne.

Any suggestion or advice would be great! Thanks in advance!

Karen

[cadences]

Hi Kareniskimova,

A Master of Theological Studies (MTS) is, like the MDiv, a first postgrad theological degree in the American system. The difference between the MTS and the MDiv is that the former is shorter (2 years), closer to an MA, and is more academic in curriculum than the MDiv. The MDiv is more geared towards ordination while the MTS is more geared towards preparation for PhD study. Of course, these are loose distinctions - the 3 year MDiv can also prepare you for a PhD, and the additional year gives you more space to take up an additional language or more coursework in your area of interest.

The Master of Sacred Theology (STM) is pretty much the Master of Theology (ThM or MTh) with a different name: in the American system, it is a second/advanced postgrad theological degree. You go on to the STM or ThM after having acquired an MDiv or an MTS. It isn't an introductory degree, and so in terms of educational aims and content is kind of equivalent to a British MA or MSt.

I hope that helps! Perhaps if you would tell me how your MA in Theological Studies was structured in terms of curriculum and length, I might be able to offer more specific advice for you?

[kareniskimova]

Hi Cadences,

Thank you very much for the very detailed information!! It is very helpful to me!

The MA in Theological Studies is an advanced degree compared to the MA in Christian Studies. It is a one year program requiring at least 24 credits (which is roughly 8 classes) including one extensive research paper for the area of study (I chose biblical studies) . Thus I was wondering whether my degree is pretty much like STM in America.

But the thing is, what I have got from the MA in Theological Studies is far not enough for me to go ahead and apply for a PhD. Thus I was thinking of applying for STM first.

Thanks again~

[cadences]

Hi Cadences,

Thank you very much for the very detailed information!! It is very helpful to me!

The MA in Theological Studies is an advanced degree compared to the MA in Christian Studies. It is a one year program requiring at least 24 credits (which is roughly 8 classes) including one extensive research paper for the area of study (I chose biblical studies) . Thus I was wondering whether my degree is pretty much like STM in America.

But the thing is, what I have got from the MA in Theological Studies is far not enough for me to go ahead and apply for a PhD. Thus I was thinking of applying for STM first.

Thanks again~

No problem, Kareniskimova. Glad to help I'm not sure if you can apply to an STM using the one-year MA in Theological Studies, actually. The STM is a seminary/divinity school degree, and within the seminary system you need a two or three-year master's degree before you can apply for an STM.

I'm a bit puzzled by your situation though. You have an MA in Religious Studies and an MA in Theological Studies as well, so I'm curious why you are not eligible to apply for a decent PhD program. Most PhD programs don't even require a Master's degree of their students - you can enter the program with just a BA. So, I'm wondering: was your Religious Studies MA in a completely different field from your Theological Studies MA? Or are you not a competitive applicant because you lack the necessary languages? Why exactly do you need a third Master's in the discipline?

[kareniskimova]

Actually the situation is quite complicated. Language is one problem. I received my first MA in China and it was quite introductory and does not require study of language--Biblical Hebrew or Greek. But it was a three year program with a research paper. I got the second one from the Divinity School in The Chinese University of Hong Kong and yet I only learned Hebrew for one year and it was quite basic. One more problem is that even though I have had the two degrees, none of them has provided many courses in the study of Hebrew Bible. That is why I doubt whether I could go for a PhD directly. So I was thinking maybe I should build up the foundation for further study first and then apply for a PhD later.

Thank you very much for your help la!!!

[cadences]

Actually the situation is quite complicated. Language is one problem. I received my first MA in China and it was quite introductory and does not require study of language--Biblical Hebrew or Greek. But it was a three year program with a research paper. I got the second one from the Divinity School in The Chinese University of Hong Kong and yet I only learned Hebrew for one year and it was quite basic. One more problem is that even though I have had the two degrees, none of them has provided many courses in the study of Hebrew Bible. That is why I doubt whether I could go for a PhD directly. So I was thinking maybe I should build up the foundation for further study first and then apply for a PhD later.

Thank you very much for your help la!!!

Ok, then that makes sense. The STM or ThM would be a logical step forward then. You might also want to consider taking German or French right now while you have the chance, if you haven't already.

Have you considered applying to the ThM at Princeton Theological Seminary? It's not Princeton University (we broke away from the university two hundred years ago) but its Old Testament department easily rivals those of the Ivies. A ThM in Old Testament from PTS is great for opening doors to PhD programs in Hebrew Bible. Plus, PTS is Really generous with their financial aid. I'm an international student there and I am basically getting a free ride: my tuition, room, board, health insurance, and meals are all covered by a comprehensive scholarship.

Ok, I think I am done trying to sell my school to you, haha. Feel free to ask me any more questions that pop to mind!

[kareniskimova]

It is really tempting after the introduction!! I even know one professor there: Choong-Leong Seow. He went to Hong Kong and taught us in the summer session. Also, my former professor recommended me to go for ThM.

But I have this question: it seems to apply for ThM, one must have a M. Div already. Since I don't have such degree, I was wondering whether I could apply for it though~

[sacklunch]

I have actually talked to PTS specifically about their entrance requirements for the ThM and you just need a total of three years of graduate study in religion or theology. So, it seems you could apply!

Tangential note: the only ThM/STM that will allow entrance with a two year degree (MTS/MA) is University of Toronto (Toronto School of Theology). All the other big names require a combined three years of study (Duke, BC, BU, YDS, HDS, et cetera).

best

[cadences]

Hey jdmhotness,

Actually, about your tangential note, I have spoken with people at some of these schools too. Some of them are a bit more flexible: Duke is fine with an MTS, while Emory's website describes the ThM as "a one-year program of study beyond the MDiv or MTS." I asked the dean of curricula at PTS about applying to the ThM using my two-year MA(TS) and she said that there was no issue with that. But you're largely right - most of these other schools refuse to accept anything less than the MDiv or its (three-year) equivalent...I'm only highlighting these few exceptions to say: there is hope for the two-year Master's students yet!

[kareniskimova]

Thanks for the information provided by both Jdmhotness and Cadences, all of them are very useful to me and I think I am going to do some more research of different schools and start to apply for mainly ThM and STM la!!! Thanks for the help you guys! I appreciate them all!!!!

[sacklunch]

Hey jdmhotness,

Actually, about your tangential note, I have spoken with people at some of these schools too. Some of them are a bit more flexible: Duke is fine with an MTS, while Emory's website describes the ThM as "a one-year program of study beyond the MDiv or MTS." I asked the dean of curricula at PTS about applying to the ThM using my two-year MA(TS) and she said that there was no issue with that. But you're largely right - most of these other schools refuse to accept anything less than the MDiv or its (three-year) equivalent...I'm only highlighting these few exceptions to say: there is hope for the two-year Master's students yet!

Who knew? That is odd given that PTS told me the opposite! I have always wondered why every school doesn't allow MTS/MA students admission. But, anyways, that's great news!

thanks

[kareniskimova]

I recently have written an email asking about the admission requirement though. The admissions assistant told me that I need a M.Div in order to apply for ThM~

[cadences]

I recently have written an email asking about the admission requirement though. The admissions assistant told me that I need a M.Div in order to apply for ThM~

Where's this?

[kareniskimova]

Sorry, Princeton Theological Seminary~

[sacklunch]

Sorry, Princeton Theological Seminary~

Weird. They told me the same, but to another an MTS is sufficient? I don't understand why that wouldn't be enough.

[kareniskimova]

Weird. They told me the same, but to another an MTS is sufficient? I don't understand why that wouldn't be enough.

To which one an MTS is sufficient?

[cadences]

To which one an MTS is sufficient?

Think jdmhotness was referring to the fact that they told me that my MA(TS) was sufficient. How did you describe your prior graduate education in your email to them? Did you spell out the number of credit hours, courses taken, etc., and ask about MDiv equivalency? Or did you simply tell them you had two Master's?

[sacklunch]

Think jdmhotness was referring to the fact that they told me that my MA(TS) was sufficient. How did you describe your prior graduate education in your email to them? Did you spell out the number of credit hours, courses taken, etc., and ask about MDiv equivalency? Or did you simply tell them you had two Master's?

Me? I told them I had an MTS from BC (48 hrs). They told me that the entry requirement was an MDiv or equivalent (three years or more of religion/theology graduate study).

Again, as I said above, the only *well-ranked* divinity school that I found that would allow an MTS student entrance into a ThM was U of Toronto.

best

[Kuriakos]

I have actually talked to PTS specifically about their entrance requirements for the ThM and you just need a total of three years of graduate study in religion or theology. So, it seems you could apply!

Tangential note: the only ThM/STM that will allow entrance with a two year degree (MTS/MA) is University of Toronto (Toronto School of Theology). All the other big names require a combined three years of study (Duke, BC, BU, YDS, HDS, et cetera).

best

I was allowed into Duke's ThM with an MA.

[kareniskimova]

Think jdmhotness was referring to the fact that they told me that my MA(TS) was sufficient. How did you describe your prior graduate education in your email to them? Did you spell out the number of credit hours, courses taken, etc., and ask about MDiv equivalency? Or did you simply tell them you had two Master's?

I did tell them that I have two masters, but without the detail of number of credit hours and courses taken, what I did mention was the length of each master and graduation dissertation and research paper done in each one. The secretary then told me I need a M Div. I was thinking of asking one more time with more details provided though~

PS: Even though PTS said no, Emory said yes I could apply for ThM~

[11Q13]

I have a friend at HDS who is doing a ThM now, after finishing an MTS last year, so add Harvard to the list of exceptions

[kareniskimova]

I have a friend at HDS who is doing a ThM now, after finishing an MTS last year, so add Harvard to the list of exceptions

Thanks a lot for the information!

[cadences]

Thanks a lot for the information!

Hi Karen,

Just apologising for my lack of response; I've not been able to access my laptop over the past few days (and I only have a few minutes on it right now too!) so I've not been able to join in the discussion. But I'm sure you've discovered by now, like I have, this forum is full of people who are only too able and willing to help! It's great, innit? Hope you get into the ThM program of your choice!