cadences

Yes; I believe xypathos was thinking of the DMin when s/he was making her/his remarks on the DD. In the UK, the DD is an honorary degree too, and considered the highest honour a theology/divinity department can confer.

Hi All, I'm reviving this thread because I don't want to start a new one for my question (also about languages). I am starting an education master's soon, in which I will have about 15-18 credits of electives. I'm planning to apply to programs in Patristics after, and an (Early Christianity) professor advised me to spend my electives on Greek and Latin courses in the university's classics department because I lack formal language courses. His rationale was: 'We prefer for students to arrive with advanced language preparation so that they can take courses from the beginning [of the program] that presuppose knowledge of the languages.' My question, then, is: if I have already taught myself a language to an intermediate level, will a single third-year course be sufficient to produce paper proof of 'advanced language preparation'? I'm asking not because I want to be lazy about this, but if I can free one more elective to take, say, Intermediate Syriac instead of another third-year Greek course, wouldn't that be better? Thanks, all! Hope to glean some wisdom from y'alls on this, haha. -- cadences

This is true. One of my professors just made the same observation to me a couple of weeks ago about the newly-arrived ThM students in his seminar...

Two cents worth: in addition to what newenglandshawn has said, I think Notre Dame is a great option for HB/OT theology as well; and the best part is, they all cut their scholarly teeth on the ANE (all the HB full professors there are students of the late Frank Moore Cross, and they just hired Gary Knoppers), so you get the best of both worlds. I'd definitely try really hard to get into their MTS.

This is true...

This

Hi Teluog, Just a quick question - is it be a master's degree or a PhD program that you intend to apply to? I think the rules of the game change somewhat with the program in question.

This!

Hi MidwesternGuy, I think you should be fine. An MTS is considered a basic theological master's within the field of theological education, so it's not That competitive in comparison to a top-tier MA that admits only, say, 5-10 students each year? (Although Notre Dame is the exception here.) Your stats are fine; having strong recommendations really helps, so you're good there too; as long as your writing sample and your SOP are strong, I think you have nothing to worry about, really. Just a few thoughts: 1) Yale has two streams for their Master of Arts in Religion (they don't have an MTS): a comprehensive MAR and a concentrated MAR. The former is decidedly easier to get into, so the conventional wisdom is to apply for the former and, after you get in, transfer to the latter in your second year. Based on what I know from the various Yale students who have commented here in the past, if you have demonstrated that you have the academic prowess for the concetrated program, then switching mostly a formality. 2) You should be fine for Duke and Marquette. Duke will be more competitive, though, because everyone and their plumber applies to Duke. Oy. 3) Notre Dame is easily the most competitive among your four options, because they guarantee funding (at least full-tuition, I believe) for every admitted MTS student. So, statistically, you would be facing the same odds as though you were applying to a PhD. Hope this helps some! Good luck!

RedDoor, The best person to ask would be Bockmuehl himself, actually. It's quite standard in the UK fo potential supervisors to be contacted by prospective students to see if they are available for supervision; besides, in the UK, I believe the one who ultimately decides how many doctoral students he or she will be taking on for each year is the professor himself or herself. So, do drop Bockmuehl an email and see what happens from there. Good luck! I hope it works out!

Ok, noted. Thanks (to both of you) for the advice!

Crap, I just remembered: PTS is really big about training people for ministry and they'll want a pastoral endorsement as part of your application, so you being an agnostic might be a problem, admissions-wise. Sorry to let you down! My bad

Caveat: we've lost quite a few NT scholars recently, but we've gained Dale Allison and hired one of our PhDs, who's quite fantastic IMHO. Still, it'll take a while before the NT department becomes as solid as it was before our losses, so I thought that it's only fair to inform you of this downside.

Putting out a plug for Princeton Theological Seminary! There's the MA(TS), and we've been intentionally increasing our intake of international students of late.

As far as you can, get them for credit - I'm personally sacrificing certain thematic courses to take languages instead. From what I know, admissions committees much prefer to see formal evidence of your language proficiency, and while having a few more OT courses on your transcript might help you some during applications, having very few languages recorded down will really work against you.

Hi Everyone, Just have a quick question I wanted to throw out: can anyone share what their experience of how Goethe Institut qualifications have been received by their university/seminary? I'm asking because I am aware that cetain Goethe branches offer German for Scholarly Reading courses, which are cheaper than their university equivalents, and I was wondering whether most religion departments/seminaries would accept a Goethe German reading certificate as proof of reading proficiency. Thanks!

As someone who had urged you to consider a GC MDiv/MA, I think this is Very Decent advice too. Do consider what theophany has suggested, Teluog.

Teluog, 1. A four-year Bachelor's is not 'necessary' for admission; it's just that it's the typical kind of BA you would receive under a liberal arts education here in the United States. I'm in a similar situation as you: I don't have a four-year Bachelor's, and my first degree (a BTh) was from a small, Pentecostal bible college where most of my lecturers held only MDivs or MTh/ThMs. I'm currently enrolled in an MA program at what people generally consider a feeder school up in the Northeast, and my three-year BTh has never been an issue for my academic advisor or professors when discussing post-MA options. Granted, the fact that I'm not American might have something to do with it; but all that to say: a three-year Bachelor's will not damn you. And, no, if you do well with an MDiv, MA, or MA/MDiv + ThM, and your work and time during the MDiv elicit strong recommendations from your professors, your Bachelor's won't be an issue. 2. In my experience, program directors are generally helpful. Just be polite and sound professional while you explain to them your situation and concerns, and they are usually quite gracious and generous in response. 3. One thing about preparing for OT doctoral studies (and this is coming from an OT major) - languages, languages, languages! This was what No One told me during my undergrad, and now a good part of my MA is being spent on scurrying to catch up on all the languages I need/don't have. You will definitely need more than one year's worth of Bibical Hebrew and Greek; other semitic languages are important too - Aramaic, Ugaritic, Akkadian, Syriac if you're into the reception history of the Old Testament, and if you're into the Ancient Near East, West Semitic, Sumerian, Hittite, and Middle Egyptian. And, of course, the most important Semitic language of all: German.* You don't need to have all those languages, btw! I was just trying to be comprehensive-ish. But you'll definitely need (to be competitive): Biblical Hebrew and Greek at at least an intermediate level, one or two additional semitic languages, and German for academic reading (and throw in some French while you're at it if you can!). Right now, I've just completed first-year Hebrew, and I will be taking a class on intermediate classical Greek over the summer while working through an intermediate Hebrew reader on the side; in 2014-2015, I will be taking Hebrew exegesis, Hebrew poetry, Akkadian, and either Syriac to an intermediate level or Ugaritic. In sum: languages, languages, languages! Good luck! I hope you do look at Gordon-Conwell. I suspect it might be your best option at this point, and you can't go wrong with all the resources of the Boston Theological Institute on hand if you get in. *This is an old joke in OT studies, but I love it - it's funny because it's too damn true.

Teluog, this might be your best bet, and it's true what she/he says: most people going into OT have two Master's, at least, and the academics I know who were admitted to PhD programs in OT with only one Master's had a BA in Religion, for which they did well. (Although, have you considered Gordon-Conwell's MDiv program? That might work out for you too, given your affiliations and your school's affinity with GC. GC might give you some good opportunities, as an alternative to a second BA.)

Thanks, everyone! This was really helpful. Cheers!

Hi All, I'm thinking of teaching myself Latin up to an intermediate level so I can register for a third-year Latin class, and I have received great advice about covering first-year Latin on my own (I'm using Lingua Latina with Wheelock on the side as a reference grammar), but I'm unsure how to proceed from there, materials and method-wise. I'm wondering whether anyone has done this before and might be willing to share their experience/advice/tips as well as point me to any helpful material that's available on the market? Thanks!

He retired in 2007, so I think he no longer accepts PhD students.

Thanks for responding!

Is no one replying this? I was kind of hoping to hear personal experiences with the MSt and MPhil too...

No, actually, they didn't. I asked because, as runthejewels and Rabbit Run have pointed out, the MATS is only for international students, and PTS usually gives very generous funding to those who get in to that program, so I thought it strange that they told you there's no financial aid available for the MATS. But since you're a domestic applicant, their response makes sense.