cadences

Thanks, jdm! That was really helpful.

Thanks, jdmhotness. So, that means the handful of specialists for each field each takes on one MAR student per year? That's almost as exclusive as doctoral studies...

Hi All, Have some questions on Yale's MARc that I hope you can help me with. I came across some posts that said (I think) admissions to the MARc was largely determined by whether one's POI in the divinity school is willing to accept you as a student. Is this true? If so, then how does this make the admissions process different from that of other schools? Should I contact my POI first before even thinking of applying? And how many people make it into each concentration per year? Does the senority of your POI determine the success of your application then? Sorry for the slew of questions, but I do hope someone can shed some light on the process Thanks!

Oops, forgot to mention: using the January term to bring your credits in a given year to 30 is only allowed once in your entire MDiv career at PTS.

Well, firstly, 16 credits would probably be out of the question, I think. As it stands, you can't take more than 15 credits in a semester, and your combined course load across Fall and Spring cannot exceed 28 credits. There is one exception to this 28-credit rule, though: you can take a course during January term to bring your total number of credits for that academic year to a maximum of 30 credits. Naturally, if you have a Brilliant case for taking more than 15 credits in a semester, you can talk to David Wall, the registrar, who is a seriously nice guy; but I think he would be reluctant to grant the exception, nonetheless. But honestly, I think that it would be good to stick to 12 credits for your first year, or at least for your first semester (this is also the opinion of a few of my seniors), to ease yourself into your studies at PTS. Once you get momentum going, taking on a greater course load for the next semester/year wouldn't be that stressful. This is especially true if you can't get yourself out of the introductory courses, especially the most infamous one - Orientation to Old Testament Studies! It's the only course that receives the dubious honour of the Student Government Association setting up a (sympathy) table of snacks and refreshments for students taking its exams

Yup, that's true. It's a matter of speaking to the registrar and/or the professor who is facilitating the equivalent introductory class in PTS. But this is advanced placement, not a transfer of credit, so you'd have to fulfil the distribution credit requirements for the course you got out of i.e. if you were exempted from INtro to OT or NT, then you have to do a Biblical Studies class to make up for it.

Ok, I'll bite, because I actually do want to! jweinbender, any suggestions for Hebrew Bible and ANE, please?

Right, cheers, guys! Appreciate the info

Hi Karen, Just apologising for my lack of response; I've not been able to access my laptop over the past few days (and I only have a few minutes on it right now too!) so I've not been able to join in the discussion. But I'm sure you've discovered by now, like I have, this forum is full of people who are only too able and willing to help! It's great, innit? Hope you get into the ThM program of your choice!

Thanks, jobsessed!

Think jdmhotness was referring to the fact that they told me that my MA(TS) was sufficient. How did you describe your prior graduate education in your email to them? Did you spell out the number of credit hours, courses taken, etc., and ask about MDiv equivalency? Or did you simply tell them you had two Master's?

Where's this?

Hi All, Just a quick question that I was hoping some of you could help me with: in terms of graduate Biblical Studies, is Notre Dame better for Hebrew Bible or for New Testament? Any feedback from current/recent Notre Dame PhD students would be especially welcome! Cheers, cadences

Hey jdmhotness, Actually, about your tangential note, I have spoken with people at some of these schools too. Some of them are a bit more flexible: Duke is fine with an MTS, while Emory's website describes the ThM as "a one-year program of study beyond the MDiv or MTS." I asked the dean of curricula at PTS about applying to the ThM using my two-year MA(TS) and she said that there was no issue with that. But you're largely right - most of these other schools refuse to accept anything less than the MDiv or its (three-year) equivalent...I'm only highlighting these few exceptions to say: there is hope for the two-year Master's students yet!

Ok, then that makes sense. The STM or ThM would be a logical step forward then. You might also want to consider taking German or French right now while you have the chance, if you haven't already. Have you considered applying to the ThM at Princeton Theological Seminary? It's not Princeton University (we broke away from the university two hundred years ago) but its Old Testament department easily rivals those of the Ivies. A ThM in Old Testament from PTS is great for opening doors to PhD programs in Hebrew Bible. Plus, PTS is Really generous with their financial aid. I'm an international student there and I am basically getting a free ride: my tuition, room, board, health insurance, and meals are all covered by a comprehensive scholarship. Ok, I think I am done trying to sell my school to you, haha. Feel free to ask me any more questions that pop to mind!

No problem, Kareniskimova. Glad to help I'm not sure if you can apply to an STM using the one-year MA in Theological Studies, actually. The STM is a seminary/divinity school degree, and within the seminary system you need a two or three-year master's degree before you can apply for an STM. I'm a bit puzzled by your situation though. You have an MA in Religious Studies and an MA in Theological Studies as well, so I'm curious why you are not eligible to apply for a decent PhD program. Most PhD programs don't even require a Master's degree of their students - you can enter the program with just a BA. So, I'm wondering: was your Religious Studies MA in a completely different field from your Theological Studies MA? Or are you not a competitive applicant because you lack the necessary languages? Why exactly do you need a third Master's in the discipline?

Hi Kareniskimova, A Master of Theological Studies (MTS) is, like the MDiv, a first postgrad theological degree in the American system. The difference between the MTS and the MDiv is that the former is shorter (2 years), closer to an MA, and is more academic in curriculum than the MDiv. The MDiv is more geared towards ordination while the MTS is more geared towards preparation for PhD study. Of course, these are loose distinctions - the 3 year MDiv can also prepare you for a PhD, and the additional year gives you more space to take up an additional language or more coursework in your area of interest. The Master of Sacred Theology (STM) is pretty much the Master of Theology (ThM or MTh) with a different name: in the American system, it is a second/advanced postgrad theological degree. You go on to the STM or ThM after having acquired an MDiv or an MTS. It isn't an introductory degree, and so in terms of educational aims and content is kind of equivalent to a British MA or MSt. I hope that helps! Perhaps if you would tell me how your MA in Theological Studies was structured in terms of curriculum and length, I might be able to offer more specific advice for you?

Oops. Missed ThereWillBe's note on creation/eco-theology bit there. Yeah, that's great advice. Does Rorem cover monasticism and Franciscan theology, though?

Thanks for that information, ThereWillBe. Then I don't think Princeton Seminary will be a fit for you...that was why I asked

ThereWillBe, which period of Christian history are you thinking of focusing on?

I just emailed a PhD student at Yale to ask if there was anyone on staff whose expertise touched on early Syriac Christianity, and the answer I got was a decisive "no". Stephen Davis handles Coptic Christianity, but from what I hear it's not particularly Jewish in character (or at least not the aspects of Coptic Christianity he researches). Have you considered Marquette?

Thanks, LateAntique!

Well, congratulations anyway! I really hope you get the funding you need Fingers crossed on your behalf.

I think someone's going around being a douche just because he/she can......

An MA from Wheaton would not preclude entry into a PhD program any more than an MA from Marquette or from Duke's Department of Religion would, which are also not accredited by ATS. Wheaton, Marquette, and Duke's Graduate Program of Religion, derive accreditation from their respective regional accreditation agencies rather than from ATS. From ATS' name - the Association of Theological Schools - one can gather that they accredit the standard North American seminary programs i.e. MDiv, ThM, DMin etc., with an eye to ministry preparation, which neither of the colleges/departments I mentioned offer or are aiming for. Of course they can choose to go for ATS accreditation - no harm getting one more source of academic backing for their programs. But technically, their MAs are already validated by the Department of Education, so there's no need for ATS backing. Besides, it also depends on which PhD programs you apply to - some of the denominational ones will insist on an MDiv for the PhD (and so ATS accreditation is needed by default), but most (at least the big-name programs) will just want to see a legitimate Master's of at least two-years' duration. Wheaton, Marquette and Duke's Religion MA readily fulfil that criteria.