Are there any jobs for international students ?

[DeeD]

The US, I heard has come up with this rule that makes it necessary for every US citizen to be placed before international students are... Even on the international students list, Europeans will be preferred over Asians. I just want to know whether this is true...

and if it is... How do I find the real .. not projected by the tourism dept... the REAL job scenario in the US ?? I am going for a masters in CS course... specialization in AI..

I know that no college will guarantee a job, duh... but how difficult is it to get one... and how tough is it if you want to stay there, for a while at least..

[sisyphus1]

Europeans will be preferred over Asians. I just want to know whether this is true...

Not true. But international students will have a harder time getting jobs than US citizens. One thing to consider with your CS degree--it will be harder for you to get jobs at small start-ups if that's your goal. But Microsoft/Cisco/Google etc. are all quite open to internationals.

Best of luck

[DeeD]

Thanks for you reply. But in that case I would have to ask... why ? What are international students doing wrong or lacking that makes them unemployable ?

[TakeruK]

When international students are studying in the US, we are on F-1 or J-1 status, which does NOT allow us to work off-campus (i.e. in any actual job other than on campus work related to our degree, e.g. TA or research). After we graduate, we don't automatically get green cards/work authorization either (but there is some discussion about this: e.g. https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/provide-green-card-foreign-students-who-have-earned-masters-or-phd-degrees-usa-universities-and-have/RD1s6V8yhttps://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/provide-green-card-foreign-students-who-have-earned-masters-or-phd-degrees-usa-universities-and-have/RD1s6V8y). 

 

In fact, once we are finished our studies in the US, we would have to leave since our F-1 and J-1 status will expire. Unless, however, we get a job! (J-1 students can extend their status for up to 3 years after their degree is over if they have a job offer related to their degree, e.g. a postdoc). When a company hires an international PhD graduate, they can petition the US government on your behalf to grant you a work visa (H1-B, for example). But this is a time consuming and costly process, especially for small start ups that might not have the infrastructure. Bigger, established companies might not have this problem as much. However, the extra work and money makes it easier to hire a US graduate over an international one.

 

I really think this is too bad, since highly qualified international graduates leaving the US work force/economy is probably a bad thing for the US. So I am hopeful that immigration reforms will fix this but I'm not too optimistic given how immigration laws are generally very restrictive in many places, including the US. In either case, I don't think anything will really change in the next ~5 years (i.e. timescale for this to affect current international graduate students). 

[Armadilla]

I would completely agree with TakeruK, except larger corporations actually have even more requirements and are responsible for extra H1b fees under several regulations passed during the Obama administration.

There are A LOT of reasons why an employer would not sponsor an H1b and they are not limited to budget issues. Such reasons may include a high degree of legal responsibility an employer would need to take on while filing with both the Department of Labor and the USCIS, the famous "repatriation costs" responsibility (which can be exorbitantly high), the necessity to wait for April 1st to file a petition (and when it's approved, an employer has to wait till October for the employee to start working), the Congressionally-allocated QUOTA, a problematic visa stamping procedure (for instance, Mumbai and Moscow consulates may occasionally have higher "administrative processing" rates, meaning your documents can get stuck in the embassy for an indefinite period of time and very few employers can wait that long), occasional RFE's, attorney fees, and all these other  trials ad tribulations that really have nothing to do with your nationality but rather, with an extremely confusing and disorganized US immigration system which currently does not offer a reliable path to LEGAL, employment-based immigration.

 

*This is just my opinion and not a legal advice, I think only a professional immigration attorney can explain those things in a more reliable manner. In the meantime, I  could read various immigration web sites and blogs on the subject, a lot of them are really helpful.

[Armadilla]

In either case, I don't think anything will really change in the next ~5 years (i.e. timescale for this to affect current international graduate students). 

I totally second that. The new "Comprehensive" Immigration law does not seem to be wanting to address employment-based green cards and therefore, there is not going to be a legal employment-based path to permanent residency in the US. There is a slight chance they will pass a provision for STEM majors (and create a special EB green card category/allocate a Congressionally defined quota for international students with STEM graduate degrees from US institutions) but this may or may not happen.

[Armadilla]

dardie, also, if you look at the country stats for h1b's on the USCIS website, you will notice that for the past several years, India has been number one in terms of visa approvals

[Seeking]

This was published in 2008 when the economy was at its lowest depth. Perhaps it's worthwhile to consider how much of this is still true - 

 

http://www.nafsa.org/_/File/_/marapr_08_frontlines.pdf

[DeeD]

First of all, thank you all for your replies. It has been very educational.

 

But I cant help but wonder ... if the laws are so stringent and anti-immigration.... how are so many people flowing into that country ? Is it better then to work in my own country for a while and then let them sponsor my visa (etc) so that I have a job waiting for me ?And there are thousands of people there, Indians and others. They don't all come back. 

 

I guess what I'm trying to ask is whether I'm missing some critical piece of information regarding how to get a job there once I incur considerable debt getting an education. 

 

Also, do institutions help one get jobs ? Here, we have something called campus placement which is basically a job fair. Anything similar ?

[Seeking]

You can get the answer to this mystery only once you are in the US, completing a Graduate Program from a well-ranked institution.

 

There are many kinds of information that you get only when you are in a US school.

 

Almost all US schools do have an employment office and also an immigration cell to provide the right information to the International candidates. But you have to be there to get their help.

[Armadilla]

dardie, well, they do stay for up to 6 years on a H1b, but afterwards, unless an employer files for an EB-2 green card, they have to leave. Also, when an employer files for the green card, the employee needs to keep working for this employer and the wait even for EB-2 can take years unless you are ROW ("rest-of-the world", as of now, the green card in the eb-2 category is "current", whereas India and China (and some other countries) have backlogs. In fact, this past year even the rest of the world had a backlog in the eb-2 category, so people are stuck in the US with the same employer for an indefinite period of time under a shaky legal status-welcome to the dead-end of the US immigration system!). There are a lot of forums and blogs you can read on the subject, even the USCIS website is very informative. I suspect that "thousands of people who stay here" you are thinking about are predominantly individuals who went through "family-based" immigration. 

[TakeruK]

In addition, some employers can take advantage of their employees "stuck" in the H1B backlog, especially if they know the employee is trying to get a green card to stay in the US permanently. They can delay promotions or treat them as second-class employees because it's not like employees on H1B can leave the company and find a job elsewhere. Someone described the US Immigration system as a machine that prefers "reuniting families" over "bringing in foreign skills" and I think that does sound right, just from the anecdotes I've heard.

[Seeking]

What TakeruK says is true for the jobs in the market. In the academia though, everything depends upon whether you are able to land a TT position in a reputable institution as soon as you complete your PhD. Applying for a Green Card from thereon is relatively less troublesome as compared to the jobs in the business sector.

 

You need to be in the top range and have very good contacts to land a TT job straight after PhD. 

 

Of course, it depends upon whether you are applying for a PhD or a Masters.

 

I am not sure that candidates from India are mainly immigrating to join families - except those coming on a spouse visa - this is true for other immigrants, not for Indians. Indians mostly arrive in the US to study and keep on moving from one degree or job to another till they can file for a Green Card. Perhaps this is why Dardie has asked this question.

 

I wish the USCIS would grant immigration to those who have a US degree and who have found a regular job after completing their US degree, rather than making the candidates dependent upon the employers to file for immigration.

 

A candidate who has a US degree and has found a regular job after getting the US degree should be able to file for Green Card on their own. 

Edited February 24, 2013 by Seeking

[Armadilla]

Seeking, if you look up the current Eb-2 backlog for India (bulletin issued by the USCIS every month), you will notice that it takes them several years to actually start a GC filing process. Even if an individual pursues a career in academia, it's still the same EB-2 process (there are cap exemptions in the H1b program for academic jobs at certain institutions, but not in the EB-2). A lot of people just get tired of this whole immigration extravaganza and go to Canada.

[Seeking]

Armadilla,

 

Yes you are right about the EC 2 backlog for the Indian and Chinese applicants.

 

What I meant by it being easier in the academia is that academic institutions support a GC application more readily than business employers, who can exploit the candidates because of the nature of GC regulations in the US. Academic institutions don't want to lose a well-qualified candidate whom they have already employed for several years.

 

Besides, once the priority date for a GC application is reached, the application from an academic from a reputable institution takes less time to get processed than one from the business or professional sector - unless there are some errors in the application.

 

A limited number of academics also manage to show that they fall in the EB1 category, for which the priority date is current, but they are very few in number.

 

Otherwise, you are right that the rules for EB 2 immigration are the same for all who fall in that category.

 

This is why Indian and Chinese applicants keep on getting registered in different Graduate Programs and changing jobs with whoever wants to give them an H1B visa till they are able to file a GC application. 

 

This not only creates problems for the candidates and makes the work of the USCIS more difficult, it is building up extra pressure on the Grad programs, who get an inflated pool of applications, from candidates who are not at fault.

 

And the US is not able to utilize this pool of skilled workers to its utmost potential, because these candidates spend a lot of time getting stabilized in the US.

 

This is why I said that instead of having this complex categorization of skilled workers, they should just allow the highly skilled candidates with a US degree and a regular job in their field to file a GC application without having to seek sponsorship from the employer and process the applications on a case by case basis.

 

This way, the US will be able to use the high skills of foreign workers much more efficiently than at present.

 

Canada is a much greater illusion than the US when it comes to immigration and a job in one's own field. It's relatively much easier to get the Canadian immigration, but once these candidates reach there, they discover that the Canadian employers offer jobs to only those who have a Canadian degree.

 

As a result, very highly skilled candidates from India are not able to get a job in their field in Canada after they immigrate and are forced to engage in work that doesn't recognize their high-level qualifications.

 

At this advanced stage, they can't even begin their education all over and it is really demeaning to all their previous qualifications if they have to do so. Hence, they go for business or job that is not in their skilled field, or just get a Graduate degree in a professional field for a couple of years that will get them a job in Canada. In the last case, their job relates to only their Canadian degree and devalues all their previous qualifications.

 

Thus, Canada is actually wasting almost all of its skilled immigrants' qualifications by the way the work situation in Canada is oriented. 

 

Earlier a lot of Indians were attracted by the relatively easy immigration program of Canada, but now they are beginning to realize the problems that lie in Canada and hence, the interest in Canadian immigration is falling now. In fact, all these candidates who would have otherwise gone to Canada are turning towards the US now, because despite whatever problems the US immigration system has, it is still better than the Canadian illusion.

 

If there are Indians going from the US to Canada, it's perhaps only with an intention to come back to the US at a later date.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Seeking

[TakeruK]

From talking to my international student friends last year, Canadian immigration is really getting worse and worse, especially with our current government. There are backlogs of paperwork that are years and years long so they recently just wiped everything clean, meaning everyone had to reapply and lose their place in the "backlog line". In addition, they decided to start putting a limit on the number of applications for permanent residency that they would accept (something like 750), and it's not clear if it's "per year" or until they get through those 750.

 

And it's true that it's really hard to get a professional job in Canada if your qualifications are international. Especially health care provider type jobs. It makes sense to make sure all health practitioners in Canada are certified to Canadian standards (which may or may not be different from the other countries) but the current system is designed to discourage outsiders rather than be there to support them in the transition to providing services for Canadians. One of my favourite fast food places in my hometown is run by a Chinese doctor who gave up trying to get re-certified after 10 years in the system and just went full time on his restaurant. His story has been in the news several times and many Canadians disappoint me by saying things like "Good, we don't want foreigners doing medicine on us!!!". Fortunately for this person, at least his business is a success but it's a sad story still.

[Seeking]

Takeruk,

 

Thanks for this information.

 

Yes, a medical Doctor running a restaurant is sad, but PhDs, Post-Docs, University lecturers, Doctors and Engineers working as cab drivers, elevator operators, small-time fruit vendors, construction workers and cleaning attendants is much sadder. This is the reality of Canadian immigrants. Unfortunately, they didn't know about this till they reached there. But the realization is coming now and the new wave of applicants are not going for Canada as their first preference.

 

Apart from Canada immigration not working, UK has closed its skilled immigration for the time being and the Indians in Australia have had to face violent attacks there leading to the drop in Australian applications to a drastic low level. The Indian students' immigration to Australia has almost come down to a trickle.

 

So, all these applicants who would have otherwise applied to Canada, UK and Australia are turning towards the US now. 

 

You will still see a rise in the number of applications to Canada, but see it in terms of the growing (read "exploding") population of young, educated people in India - in proportion to this, there is a gradual slowdown in the Canadian applications.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Seeking

[DeeD]

This all sounds very bleak :/ 

 

Anyone out there with some good news ?

 

Also, I think someone asked before .. I am going in for a masters degree in CS.

Edited February 25, 2013 by dardie

[Seeking]

Well, don't go by only the negatives.

 

The best option for you is to join in the CS Masters and see what kind of opportunities open up for you. You may go on to do a PhD after this, you may get an understanding employer who may support your GC application, the priority dates for India may begin moving while you are doing MS or you may immigrate to Canada and come back to the US after a while. Or you may keep on getting employed on H1B and register for courses as so many others are doing.

 

But you'll know exactly how people in your discipline are managing only if you join in your MS program and see how it's being done by others. The sooner you do it the better it is for you in the long run.

 

You can't plan everything from India before you leave. You have to ensure your admission and funding from India and then work it out as the situation unfolds before you in the US.

 

The basic rule of immigration is that you should be willing to take risks.

 

So, take one step at a time and do it. If so many others are doing it, this means there is certainly some way to do it.

 

See this link. It may be of use to you - 

 

http://www.ice.gov/sevis/practical-training/

Edited February 25, 2013 by Seeking

[TeaGirl]

Here's what I will advise, and it's all anecdotal and from experience. I have 2 siblings, both engineers, both went on F1 visas, and both successfully working in the U.S.

 

For the university/ies your are considering, now is the time for the Spring career fair. Go to their websites and check the list of companies which come recruiting. Ideally, you want several major large corporations that hire en-masse in your field (think of really big companies) Alternatively, go to the company websites and check their campus recruiting schedule and see which universities they visit. Some don't necessarily recruit in the career fair but on other days.

 

When you get in, the first year of your Masters/PhD, go to every single recruiting session, prepare your CV, and try to get a summer internship somewhere. This is critical, if you don't get that summer internship at a good company, it'll be that much more difficult to get a job post-graduation. International students on an F1 visa are eligible for a CPT, which lets you do an internship in the middle of your studies. If you do well in job interviews, and impress them in your internship, then you'll find it so much easier to get a job.

 

Additionally, F1 students are also allowed to apply for an OPT after graduating, which gives 1 year in which to work or search for a job, and it can be extended I believe 17months if you find work. In most cases, you can start working soon after graduation on the OPT which will give your sponsoring company time to  apply for the work visa.

[Armadilla]

TeaGirl, great advice, but one very important correction: you can be unemployed on OPT only for 90 days during your whole OPT period (12 months, or 120 total if you apply and receive the STEM 17-month extension)