footnotes/endnotes?

[sunshan]

hey everyone!

hope everyone is hanging in there! does anyone know if footnotes and/or endnotes count in page lengths? I have some pretty chunky footnotes and am wondering if the space they will take up will count in my page limit. haven't found any specific guidelines on this. thanks!!

[lisajay]

yes, they do. works cited page(s) count, too.

[rems]

I'm including my end notes in the page length -- they only equal a page because I only have a few suggesting further study so it looks like I'm aware that the scholarship exists even though I don't use it in the paper. I was going to cut it, but a prof suggested to keep it so it demonstrates my research is current.

That being said, I would email each program individually and ask, or assume that they do count. I also assumed the Works Cited counted as well, and didn't even want to ask. I just paired down my paper so it was under 20 pp or under 25 depending on the program including everything.

[asleepawake]

yes, they do. works cited page(s) count, too.

Since when? I've seen at least one website say that Works Cited does not count, so I haven't been counting it!

[practical cat]

Since when? I've seen at least one website say that Works Cited does not count, so I haven't been counting it!

Cosigned.

[justkeepswimming]

Cosigned.

Same. I just assumed they wanted 15-20 pages of critical work.

[D. Malorkus]

Fourthed, and counting on it.

[rems]

I just wouldn't assume. If the website states that they don't count towards the total, then I wouldn't count them. But unless you've directly had contact with the department and asked them this question, I would assume that they count. You never know.

[asleepawake]

I really don't think the Works Cited counts.

Well, I'm not counting it. If that's a reason for a school to reject me... so be it. My sample is right at the 20 page mark (12 for NYU; completely different sample) + 2 pages of Works Cited. I mean, the admissions committee is not going to actually read my Works Cited page. They might glance at it, but it doesn't take the time to look over that the actual sample does.

Edited December 5, 2012 by asleepawake

[rems]

This thread is a little weird -- I wouldn't take anything on here as gospel. Page length and what is considered part of page length, varies from department to department and from adcom to adcom. I would double check before assuming. You could get profs who could care less that you went over on your adcom, but you could also get profs who are very strict about following the rules on your adcom -- you never know. I'm not trying to say that the people here who assumed they don't count were wrong, but I would be cautious with this advice -- contact the dept if you're nervous.

[asleepawake]

Well, I don't know. I think part of what we need to be able to do as graduate students/scholars/whatever is use our best judgement in figuring out what is worth inquiring about and what isn't. I'm not going to call 15 schools and ask if it's okay that I didn't count my Works Cited page in the page count. I've already called all of my schools once about Interfolio.

If you're worried about it, by all means call or e-mail. Please share the answers you get, too! I'm just worried about a zillion other things more than I am worried about some stickler on an adcom taking the page count guideline so literally that this one thing will be a deal breaker (and not just for me, but for about half of us here!).

Edited December 5, 2012 by asleepawake

[waparys]

I really don't think the Works Cited counts.

Well, I'm not counting it. If that's a reason for a school to reject me... so be it. My sample is right at the 20 page mark (12 for NYU; completely different sample) + 2 pages of Works Cited. I mean, the admissions committee is not going to actually read my Works Cited page. They might glance at it, but it doesn't take the time to look over that the actual sample does.

But the whole point of the writing sample is to show a well-researched, scholarly, critical piece of work so I'm pretty sure they're going to at least GLANCE at your sources to make sure you've actually done what they asked for.

[asleepawake]

But the whole point of the writing sample is to show a well-researched, scholarly, critical piece of work so I'm pretty sure they're going to at least GLANCE at your sources to make sure you've actually done what they asked for.

Well, yes. I guess I cannot predict what they are going to do with it, but a WC page does not take the same effort to read as any other page. They're not going to closely read it and follow an argument.

This kind of nit-picking and speculating of this process is going to drive us all to completely and utter madness. I am not counting my WC page in the page count, at the advice of one or two school's pages, and on the basis of what makes sense to me. YMMV. When I get rejected across the board, I can blame the WC page debacle of '12.

Edited December 5, 2012 by asleepawake

[GuateAmfeminist]

Maybe people are getting a little too frantic and stressed before apps are due. There are a lot of threads which are talking about things which hardly seem like they matter. I didn't even consider that Works Cited counted in my page count and a typo won't kill your chances. I'm sure if you focus on the overall quality of your submission, you can rest semi-easy. You ladies and gents seem very smart but you only have so much that can be controlled in this process. Submit your best work and, by all means, be anxious, anticipating, and excited, but don't get hung up on little things like double- or single-spacing or how much scrutiny your WC page will get. Good luck all, I know that you will all be contenders!

[rems]

Well, yes. I guess I cannot predict what they are going to do with it, but a WC page does not take the same effort to read as any other page. They're not going to closely read it and follow an argument.

This kind of nit-picking and speculating of this process is going to drive us all to completely and utter madness. I am not counting my WC page in the page count, at the advice of one or two school's pages, and on the basis of what makes sense to me. YMMV. When I get rejected across the board, I can blame the WC page debacle of '12.

I want to apologize -- I wasn't trying to come off as though you did something wrong. What I was trying to say was for people who haven't decided what to do about this yet should double check with the departments, and not take what a forum says as gospel. I definitely didn't mean to make you feel as though you chose the wrong answer or something. That is my bad.

This thread more caught my attention because forums are used to provide "suggestions," and I felt as though this one moving more towards "facts." And none of us, myself included, know for a FACT what the hell to do about any of this. That was all I was trying to say, promise!

[Datatape]

Okay, guys. There is a whole lot of this going on:

And there needs to be a whole lot of this going on:

I promise you, IT IS GOING TO BE OKAY. You are all brilliant, but you really need to stop hyperventilating over every tiny hiccup you find in your applications. At this point in the game, you have pretty much done everything you could possibly do and it will be entirely in the adcom's hands, so just submit your applications, get a good night's sleep and try to relax.

[asleepawake]

I want to apologize -- I wasn't trying to come off as though you did something wrong. What I was trying to say was for people who haven't decided what to do about this yet should double check with the departments, and not take what a forum says as gospel. I definitely didn't mean to make you feel as though you chose the wrong answer or something. That is my bad.

This thread more caught my attention because forums are used to provide "suggestions," and I felt as though this one moving more towards "facts." And none of us, myself included, know for a FACT what the hell to do about any of this. That was all I was trying to say, promise!

Oh, no worries! I didn't mean to sound certain, because adcoms are pretty much the bottom of the ocean. I have no idea what they're up to down there. I just meant to articulate that I made a decision for my applications, and for my own sanity, that decision has to be final for me. Everybody else should do what makes sense to them.

Edited December 6, 2012 by asleepawake

[lisajay]

I made a decision for my applications, and for my own sanity, that decision has to be final for me. Everybody else should do what makes sense to them.

absolutely. i apologize if my post got folks riled up. i was only trying to respond to the OP and definitely didn't mean to imply that my interpretation of page count is right and anything else is wrong.