What Do You Imagine Grad School Will Be Like?

[rems]

Tip of the hat, sir.

[Two Espressos]

I get really tired of people saying stuff like this over and over again. I think a lot of these types of complaints about graduate school come from people bitter about graduate school. I have lot of intelligent, successful friends out there that when I mention my Ph.D.'s apps seem to get weird, and their response typically falls along the lines of, "I could have gone to grad school, but I decided I wanted to make money." And then they laugh harder than what's appropriate. I'm not a psychology major, but I'm going to analysis these people: I think a lot of people want to go to grad school and are drawn to the allure of the glamour of the so-called "life of the mind" but don't go for varying reasons. Then, they sit at their desk jobs and say, "I could have gone to grad school -- I'm smart and, gosh darn it, people like me!" And then they decide not to go anyway, again. So when they run into people like us (neurotic grad students), they are suddenly reminded that they could have gone and didn't and they get kinda snarky about it. Ever ask someone why they didn't apply? You might as well punch their dog. It's annoying.

Exactly. It's easy to be sardonic about graduate school if you didn't go but said you could. Really though, if someone didn't go--or even more so, if this person didn't even apply-- I have no reason to believe that she or he could actually do it.

Yes, I'm applying for graduate school. Yes, I know how little money I'll make. Yes, I know that I'll probably get a divorce. Yes, I know I'll work 120 hrs+ a week for little pay off. Yes, I realize that my only job is on par with a grading monkey. Yes, I know that the "life of the mind" doesn't actually exist. Yes, I know grad school isn't the place for validation. Yes, I know that I have a <1% chance of being the next Derrida. Yes, (I'll say it again), I know there's no money in it. YES YES YES to all of this.

Again, exactly. There may be those naive, ignorant applicants who are oblivious to these things, but most of us on these forums know all of the above and still apply anyways. To my mind, this signifies two things that are not necessarily mutually exclusive:

1) We're extremely dedicated and passionate about the work we want to do.

2) We're slightly insane.

And while lots of people say that the life of the mind doesn't exist, I'm not convinced this is the case. Many careers outside academia foster creativity and higher-order thinking, of course, but none of them offer the unique opportunity that graduate school does to reach the highest echelons of thought. As with any endeavor, intellectual or physical, practice hones and develops ability. Being an autodidact only gets you so far, especially when your time gets swallowed up by life's other concerns. In graduate school, you have the opportunity to make higher-order thinking your career, your full-time occupation, and thus get lots of time to practice and thereby develop your intellectual abilities. The life of the mind does exist; graduate school offers it, flawed and non-idyllic though it may be.

[asleepawake]

Luckily, we don't have to worry about this much longer:

[rems]

And while lots of people say that the life of the mind doesn't exist, I'm not convinced this is the case. Many careers outside academia foster creativity and higher-order thinking, of course, but none of them offer the unique opportunity that graduate school does to reach the highest echelons of thought. As with any endeavor, intellectual or physical, practice hones and develops ability. Being an autodidact only gets you so far, especially when your time gets swallowed up by life's other concerns. In graduate school, you have the opportunity to make higher-order thinking your career, your full-time occupation, and thus get lots of time to practice and thereby develop your intellectual abilities. The life of the mind does exist; graduate school offers it, flawed and non-idyllic though it may be.

I would agree with this. My hesitation towards calling grad school the "life of the mind" comes from the assumption that we're all sitting around sipping wine with awesome mustaches, wearing excellent top hats, and having amazing conversations with like-minded people about the progression of blahblahblah. That's not exactly it. There's definitely mustaches, but less charm.

[bfat]

Also, fewer top hats these days.

[asleepawake]

You can count on at least one fedora, though.

[rems]

Also, fewer top hats these days.

OMG that is AWESOME.

[practical cat]

I would agree with this. My hesitation towards calling grad school the "life of the mind" comes from the assumption that we're all sitting around sipping wine with awesome mustaches, wearing excellent top hats, and having amazing conversations with like-minded people about the progression of blahblahblah. That's not exactly it. There's definitely mustaches, but less charm.

... I wish I had known that before I sent out all those applications.

[DontHate]

Seriously, I spend a lot of time drinking wine and talking intellectual talk with my profs. At least once a week. Am I the only one?

[Guest lefilsdhomme]

Yes, I'm applying for graduate school. Yes, I know how little money I'll make. Yes, I know that I'll probably get a divorce. Yes, I know I'll work 120 hrs+ a week for little pay off. Yes, I realize that my only job is on par with a grading monkey. Yes, I know that the "life of the mind" doesn't actually exist. Yes, I know grad school isn't the place for validation. Yes, I know that I have a <1% chance of being the next Derrida. Yes, (I'll say it again), I know there's no money in it. YES YES YES to all of this.

People of the grad cafe: Do not be deterred, my friends. You'll end up regretting your life no matter path you choose -- there's no "right" answer. So pick one, and talk it out with your therapist later.

PREACH! This is fabulously resounding and I suspect aligns with what most of our motivations on this forum are. I explained it to my grandmother as a career choice. I want so badly to go to graduate school that if I didn't at least try I would regret it forever; even if I "fail" and do not stay in academia (or a curatorial position in my case) at the very least I can say that I worked unbelievably hard to achieve my dreams. (and I can mentally keep my chin up when I'm still digging through thrift bins and patching my jeans at the ripe age of 50...)

[smilax]

You'll end up regretting your life no matter path you choose

Very uplifting.

[dazedandbemused]

Very uplifting.

It might not be uplifting, but I think it's very true. Not in the "crushing regret" kind of way, but probably more like nostalgia. Even though I'm committed to getting my PhD, I still think every so often about whether I should have decided to go into book publishing instead. Some days, I remember my dream of going to culinary school. At the same time, I know if I had done either of those things, I would have had far more regret that I hadn't at least made an effort to become an English professor. I can live much more comfortably with my current regret than what I would have had otherwise.

[rems]

Seriously, I spend a lot of time drinking wine and talking intellectual talk with my profs. At least once a week. Am I the only one?

Nope I do this too. I just meant that's not ALL grad school is. You know, like the stereotype and junk.

It might not be uplifting, but I think it's very true. Not in the "crushing regret" kind of way, but probably more like nostalgia. Even though I'm committed to getting my PhD, I still think every so often about whether I should have decided to go into book publishing instead. Some days, I remember my dream of going to culinary school. At the same time, I know if I had done either of those things, I would have had far more regret that I hadn't at least made an effort to become an English professor. I can live much more comfortably with my current regret than what I would have had otherwise.

And yes, this is exactly what I meant by this. Everyday I think about going to school to be a baker. If I did, 20 years from now I'd probably be sitting here wondering what would have been if I actually went through with those PhD apps. You'll always regret something, so there's no use in sitting around worrying you're making the wrong decision.

[DontHate]

Why does everyone want to be a baker? It seems rather intellectually stymying and repetitive. And you have to wake up so early. Also, cooking school is really expensive and every professional chef I know thinks it's a waste of money. You can just get a job in a kitchen and work your way up, learning as you go, and getting paid while you're at it. Chefs have more respect for the apprenticed than the culinary school-educated. The best place to stage is Paris, of course.

I may be unique in this, but I will not regret my career choices. I know I won't. Because my career isn't going to be what defines my life. My life is going to be what defines my life.

[bfat]

And yes, this is exactly what I meant by this. Everyday I think about going to school to be a baker. If I did, 20 years from now I'd probably be sitting here wondering what would have been if I actually went through with those PhD apps. You'll always regret something, so there's no use in sitting around worrying you're making the wrong decision.

I just had a three hour conversation with my sister who went to school to be a pastry chef about how she regrets not going to school for anthro/psychology. I was telling her it's not too late, but it is really hard to go back to school and start from scratch once you have a life established. She hasn't used her pastry degree because that world was so miserable for her. It's actually really competitive and difficult. Just kinda illustrates your point.

[rems]

Why does everyone want to be a baker? It seems rather intellectually stymying and repetitive. And you have to wake up so early. Also, cooking school is really expensive and every professional chef I know thinks it's a waste of money. You can just get a job in a kitchen and work your way up, learning as you go, and getting paid while you're at it. Chefs have more respect for the apprenticed than the culinary school-educated. The best place to stage is Paris, of course.

I may be unique in this, but I will not regret my career choices. I know I won't. Because my career isn't going to be what defines my life. My life is going to be what defines my life.

I also want to be a ballerina, but I've already seen Black Swan so you don't need to tell me how awful it would be.

I just had a three hour conversation with my sister who went to school to be a pastry chef about how she regrets not going to school for anthro/psychology. I was telling her it's not too late, but it is really hard to go back to school and start from scratch once you have a life established. She hasn't used her pastry degree because that world was so miserable for her. It's actually really competitive and difficult. Just kinda illustrates your point.

[nhswrestle]

Exactly. It's easy to be sardonic about graduate school if you didn't go but said you could. Really though, if someone didn't go--or even more so, if this person didn't even apply-- I have no reason to believe that she or he could actually do it.

Again, exactly. There may be those naive, ignorant applicants who are oblivious to these things, but most of us on these forums know all of the above and still apply anyways. To my mind, this signifies two things that are not necessarily mutually exclusive:

1) We're extremely dedicated and passionate about the work we want to do.

2) We're slightly insane.

And while lots of people say that the life of the mind doesn't exist, I'm not convinced this is the case. Many careers outside academia foster creativity and higher-order thinking, of course, but none of them offer the unique opportunity that graduate school does to reach the highest echelons of thought. As with any endeavor, intellectual or physical, practice hones and develops ability. Being an autodidact only gets you so far, especially when your time gets swallowed up by life's other concerns. In graduate school, you have the opportunity to make higher-order thinking your career, your full-time occupation, and thus get lots of time to practice and thereby develop your intellectual abilities. The life of the mind does exist; graduate school offers it, flawed and non-idyllic though it may be.

Well put.

[DontHate]

Exactly. It's easy to be sardonic about graduate school if you didn't go but said you could. Really though, if someone didn't go--or even more so, if this person didn't even apply-- I have no reason to believe that she or he could actually do it.

Again, exactly. There may be those naive, ignorant applicants who are oblivious to these things, but most of us on these forums know all of the above and still apply anyways. To my mind, this signifies two things that are not necessarily mutually exclusive:

1) We're extremely dedicated and passionate about the work we want to do.

2) We're slightly insane.

And while lots of people say that the life of the mind doesn't exist, I'm not convinced this is the case. Many careers outside academia foster creativity and higher-order thinking, of course, but none of them offer the unique opportunity that graduate school does to reach the highest echelons of thought. As with any endeavor, intellectual or physical, practice hones and develops ability. Being an autodidact only gets you so far, especially when your time gets swallowed up by life's other concerns. In graduate school, you have the opportunity to make higher-order thinking your career, your full-time occupation, and thus get lots of time to practice and thereby develop your intellectual abilities. The life of the mind does exist; graduate school offers it, flawed and non-idyllic though it may be.

No offense, but this kind of sounds like a justification for feeling better than everyone who doesn't go to grad school. Not attractive.

And remember back two weeks ago when everyone was crowing about MY elitism? This is pretty much the definition of elitism right here. Not the kind that's based on merit, the kind that's based purely on the arbitrary distinction of having chosen a career that involves a PhD. Ick.

Edited December 20, 2012 by DontHate

[dazedandbemused]

No offense, but this kind of sounds like a justification for feeling better than everyone who doesn't go to grad school. Not attractive.

And remember back two weeks ago when everyone was crowing about MY elitism? This is pretty much the definition of elitism right here. Not the kind that's based on merit, the kind that's based purely on the arbitrary distinction of having chosen a career that involves a PhD. Ick.

I have to agree with you on that one. It's super douchetastic to say that people who didn't apply to grad school just weren't good enough, as though grad school is the end all, be all of intelligent thought. There are probably myriad people who could have whipped our asses in grad school, but chose a different career, just like I chose not to be an Editor. They're life choices, not unfortunate fall back options for the unsuccessful proletariat.

[asleepawake]

I also think it is worth mentioning that "I'm bitter I didn't go to grad school" is quite different from "I went to grad school and now I'm bitter about it." I don't think we should dismiss everyone who raises problems with academia as merely "bitter," either. There are some real problems with the state of education, and that blog addresses some of them, though not in a particularly productive way. All of us going into this can assume it will make us happy, but some of us will come out the other side displeased for a number of reasons. Some of us won't finish our degrees. If we could predict now how we would feel in the future, some of us might decide not to go. But we have to go with what we know now.

 

Honestly, though: being a graduate student, if funded with a stipend that allows you to pay for basic necessities, can be a pretty sweet gig. It can suck sometimes, but let's be real. Most people in this world do not get paid to read, write, and engage in ideas that they feel passionately about. If I come out the other end of this and cannot get the job I want, if I end up teaching high school, I believe I will still be glad I did it. Grad school is, for me, a means and an ends. 

Edited December 20, 2012 by asleepawake

[Two Espressos]

No offense, but this kind of sounds like a justification for feeling better than everyone who doesn't go to grad school. Not attractive.

And remember back two weeks ago when everyone was crowing about MY elitism? This is pretty much the definition of elitism right here. Not the kind that's based on merit, the kind that's based purely on the arbitrary distinction of having chosen a career that involves a PhD. Ick.

 

How so?  I'm merely pointing out the truism that practice makes perfect, so there is nothing wrong with a graduate student or professional scholar being confident in the intellectual abilities she has honed and refined through their career choice.  It's easy for someone who hasn't gone to graduate school to casually dismiss it or assume he could have gone; that's all I'm saying.  I don't see any elitism in my remarks.

[DontHate]

I can see that you didn't mean to sound elitist. Just be careful whenever you start talking "us" and "them," with them being everyone who isn't pursuing a PhD. Because that's entering some dangerous territory.

[Two Espressos]

I can see that you didn't mean to sound elitist. Just be careful whenever you start talking "us" and "them," with them being everyone who isn't pursuing a PhD. Because that's entering some dangerous territory.

 

A fair point.  I'll be more careful with my rhetoric next time.

[lisajay]

FWIW, your post was in response to a post rems made specifically referring to people who didn't pursue a phd, but who also (1) say "i could've gotten a phd if i wanted to" & then (2) get snarky when talking to rems about the phd application process. so while donthate raises a valid point about us/them, the "them" you were addressing was more specific than everyone who isn't pursuing a phd. it just got removed from context.

[asleepawake]

You guys!

 

The very wonderful edx.org (free online classes offered through Harvard and MIT) is offering some awesome courses for the spring. I want to take everything. I am definitely enrolling in "Justice" and maybe "The Ancient Greek Hero," because I'm lacking in that area. Anybody else?

 

I really don't have time for this but WANT.

 

 

• The Challenges of Global Poverty — living on under $1 a day, examining and overcoming poverty traps.
• Justice — a global dialogue about the big moral and civic questions of our time.
• The Ancient Greek Hero — amazing stories, poetry and songs from more than two millennia ago (intro level).
• Copyright — who "owns" ideas in the US and beyond – you’ll find out in this pilot course (limited to 500 students).
• Human Health and Global Environmental Change — climate change, biodiversity loss and their effect on billions of people.
• Introduction to Statistics — an amazing, introductory course on the fundamentals and the science of drawing conclusions from data.
• Quantum Mechanics and Quantum Computation — a remarkable intro course for students of all types.