They both are called Master of Arts. But are they the same when you apply PhD?

[alistair0505]

Hi folk,

 

I am curious to ask if there are 2 PhD applicants, both earn their stand-alone MAs from top universities in the States. Student A's MA only requires 1 full-time year study without writing a thesis, while student B's MA requires 2 years' study and have to spend the whole final year to write a thesis. If both of them graduate with same GPAs, achieve same GRE scores and write the same quality SoP, will Student B have a higher chance to be admitted to a better PhD program since he has spent a year to write a thesis?

Edited December 27, 2012 by alistair0505

[laura_b]

My MA advisor always told us that writing a thesis is very important for getting into a PhD program, but that's only her word for it.

[waparys]

Probably, yes. Writing a thesis shows a commitment to graduate study and academic pursuits.

 

The same would be true of someone coming straight from the BA with a senior thesis under his or her belt.

 

Other posters will also point out fit, but I'm guessing we're disregarding this for the purposes of your question.

[rems]

Yes, I would say student B has a higher chance of acceptance for all of the above reasons. Completing a thesis demonstrates your ability to handle a research/writing project of that degree which, in turn, demonstrates your potential ability to research/write/not have a nervous break down while tackling the dissertation. An MA thesis, and this of course varies, but mostly they weight in at 60-120ish pages in length. And let's not forget about the defense portion as well. These are all factors that an adcom will weigh... probably. 

[asleepawake]

I think the person who writes the thesis has a better chance, if only because writing a thesis gives you more practice writing scholarship and gives you something really polished to use as your writing sample. I imagine this is more important than how it looks to have simply completed a thesis. At the same time, someone who wrote a thesis that was poorly written or had no interesting argument is going to lose to somebody who didn't write one but who has a great seminar paper with an original and interesting argument.

[ProfLorax]

I'll be in the minority here, but I don't think a thesis would matter as standalone criteria, simply because of logistics. How would the admissions committee know that Student A didn't write a thesis, unless Student A directly states it? I just don't think that the admissions committee will spend that much time pouring over transcripts and school catalogues  for each applicant to see who wrote a thesis and who didn't. Considering that many top PhD programs also accept students with just a BA, I also don't think an absence of thesis will raise any red flags. I could be wrong, but my impression is that admissions committee go through our application packets pretty quickly. In the scenario posed by the OP, I imagine that whoever had the stronger writing sample, regardless of if it is a part of a thesis or not, would have the advantage here. 

[Dark Matter]

Proflorox presents the closest the correct answer here.The truth is, it's impossible to say. After the initial cut is made, decisions turn on a variety of imponderable factors, and really have as much to do with a committee (or one or two readers') overall sense of a candidate as on any particular achievement. Statement and writing sample rule the day. An MA student with a thesis can sometimes seem overripe, whereas that BA could seem full of potential (don't worry there also reasons it could cut the other way). The point is there is no way simply to draw up a ledger and know in advance who is going to see what in a given file.

[lisajay]

to add to what proflorax & dark matter have noted, my MA program gives students the option of writing a thesis or taking comprehensive exams. while trying to determine which was the better route, my pseudo/adopted advisor told me that it's really six of one, half-dozen of the other: thesis demonstrates that you have the capacity to handle writing a dissertation, comps show that you're prepared to deal with quals. neither option seems at all likely to get you in or keep you out.

[rems]

Interesting point about how an adcom would know you did or didn't write a thesis unless, of course, you state as such. All they know about your education is what your transcript reads... hmmm very good point. And the term "MA" really varies depending on which school you attended. My MA required me to write a thesis AND take comps. But in my program if you don't write the thesis, you graduate with an "MS" (Master of Science -- they offer it because we have a big program for secondary education and since they're training to be teachers they don't have to write a thesis so we offer an alternative degree that just straight up literature students sometimes chose to do). So unless the adcom knew ALL of the above information, I don't think it would weight any decisions one way or another. 

I also don't think that just having written a thesis puts you heads above anyone who didn't -- I just think it can strengthen your app. Also, if someone is qualified to enter a program, I would hope that if they spent a year working on one project it would be good. Of course this isn't always the case, but if you spend an entire year working on one research project and it sucks at the end, you probably shouldn't be in an English PhD program. Sorry to sound harsh 

 

I think this further lends itself to the fact that we present "profiles" of ourselves and writing a thesis adds to this profile. I would highly doubt it would be the end-all-end-all of everything in an application process. 

[Eigen]

It's also worth mentioning that there's a difference between a 1 year, coursework only MA and a 2 year comprehensive exam based MA.

 

If the only difference is the Thesis, it's less of an issue- but that's not the question the OP proposed.

 

Also, as to how the admissions committee would know- usually thesis hours and the title of said thesis are denoted on the transcript, at least everywhere I've seen. 

[alistair0505]

When I issue this thread, I have stand-alone Master of Arts Degree granted by University of Michigan in mind. Just when I browse and read their degree requirements, many of them don't require a thesis nor comprehensive 'exist' exam. I am not sure (if there is any offends please accept my apology) if people get a distinction from this school would be admitted by best PhD programs

 

I just ask. No more.

Edited December 29, 2012 by alistair0505

[Swagato]

When I issue this thread, I have stand-alone Master of Arts Degree granted by University of Michigan in mind. Just when I browse and read their degree requirements, many of them don't require a thesis nor comprehensive 'exist' exam. I am not sure (if there is any offends please accept my apology) if people get a distinction from this school would be admitted by best PhD programs

 

I just ask. No more.

Not with that grammar.

 

I don't mean to be snarky, but, really, you'll have a very hard time being admitted anywhere with that standard of writing. 

[asleepawake]

I have to agree with Swagato. I see from your other posts that you are an international student. If you don't get in this year (though I hope you do!), spend the next year improving your written English. A lot can be done with language in a year.

 

Also, I don't think anyone was offended by your post. I'm not sure where you are seeing that.

Edited December 29, 2012 by asleepawake

[Two Espressos]

Not with that grammar.

 

I don't mean to be snarky, but, really, you'll have a very hard time being admitted anywhere with that standard of writing. 

 

Yeah, any worthwhile Ph.D. program in English will require native or near-native fluency in the language.  There's no avoiding that.

[Swagato]

That person seems interested in East Asian Languages/Literatures, going by their previous posts. Still, I would expect a large amount of work to be done in English even in that field.