Unreliability of Recommenders - PLEASE READ, need advice

[hopeful80]

The lack of action on the recommenders part has driven me to screaming in my car. I've already been rejected from everywhere twice, and I had all my applications finished a month ahead of time, to give my recommenders the maximum time. I've had countless meetings in person with the last one, as well as emails, and they are already 2 weeks overdue for 3 schools, and 1 day overdue for 1 school. I am seeking therapy because, let me tell you, living in the Groundhog Day-style of life for the past two years has been mentally taxing. I used to be so much happier 3 years ago.

 

Honestly, I cringed when I read this. The sheer fact that some people have the GALL to be so mother effing irresponsible is entirely beyond me. Especially if they gave you their word. It's disgusting. These people really don't give a crap and don't realize the implications if they fail to deliver something they PROMISED TO DO. Let's put this into perspective: If you don't follow through, *I* get rejected. EVERYWHERE. BECAUSE OF YOU. If you can't do it or know you won't have the time, DON'T. SAY. YOU. CAN.

 

This kind of story just really riles me up. I feel the exact same way and was really angry when I read your post. I hope things work out for you. It would be so unfair for you to not get into schools of your choice because OTHER PEOPLE screwed it up for you. I am so sorry this happened to you. I would be going just as insane.

 

I swear, schools need to have some sort of hearing out for people who have to unfortunately deal with the ulcer-inducing horror of flaky recommenders.

Edited January 17, 2013 by hopeful80

[bamafan]

You really need to be a lot more firm. Don't be rude or demanding, but they need to help you if they promised to. Tell them the urgency of this and it needs to be in. It's part of their job to do recommendations, but if you've only contacted them once or twice, that doesn't show them the urgency you needed to.

[Ohm]

Hey guys, thank you for all of your responses ... I see that I'm not alone in this, and Ohn, I cannot BELIEVE that happened to you. Seriously, WHAT? That's just pure rotten and completely unprofessional. I'm really sorry. I can definitely feel your pain, though in a little bit of a different way.

 

I suppose I'll ask now - Since beginning this graduate school process, the quality of my recommendations has seriously gone down, to be honest. I started off with one senior professor (my favorite in college, the only one I spoke to really), a former boss who could speak very highly of my writing capabilities, and another former boss from an internship in 2011 who was a marketing director. To me, this seemed like the perfect combination.

 

Then everything went awry.

 

One day out of nowhere last minute, my professor emailed me and backed out of writing a recommendation for personal reasons. I understood her dilemma and it was hard to get angry at her, but it was admittedly extremely unprofessional of her. The biggest problem I am having now is with my former boss who could speak to my writing abilities - I gave him ALL the materials he needed and plenty of time. I also helped him heavily with this process. He even told me he was finished when I managed to catch hold of him one day, but is seriously delaying turning it in for some reason. All he has to do is literally copy/paste it and he can't find 5 minutes out of his day to do that. He has had 2.5 months to do this now. It's already the 16th and I've stressed the importance of the Feb 1. deadline ... but won't be surprised if he misses the deadline entirely. I get the feeling he's becoming hostile and resentful towards talking to me, even though I space out my time following up with him by weeks (... why did you agree to do this in the first place then?) He is the one I am most furious with and ... to put in HeadCold's words ... without question is the very definition of "disturbing unprofessionalism."

 

That's two out of three gone due to unreliability. I had to find other resources. I asked another professor, but she said she couldn't write me a very thorough one because she didn't know me very well. So I went to another boss I interned with in 2010, and he submitted one but forgot about the rest - then started ignoring my emails. Everything started to turn into a mess. I was asking 5 different people for 10 different schools and had to kept asking because people kept dropping like flies. Thankfully my marketing boss came through but I still needed one more.

 

This is when I started REALLY scraping. I asked a previous director/mentor for a leadership camp I attended and maintained a relationship with for several years. He works for a school as associate director of student affairs. He's delaying a little bit, but he's a good guy and I trust he'll get it in by Feb 1. Fearing that my writing boss wouldn't come through (Why do I keep clinging on? Because he is arguably my most important one in that I'm applying to professional writing programs ...) I had to ask my extreme backup, a mentor who I worked casually for on-and-off growing up - a finance director at a major non-profit organization.

 

So now my line up is (if the other one doesn't come through) - one marketing director, one associate director of student affairs, one finance director. None of which have anything to do with writing. No professors.

 

If anyone has any insight, do you seriously think this will harm my chances of getting in? My professor really did put me at a huge disadvantage, and I can't ask very many other ones because frankly, they really didn't know me. I'm just beginning to get worried my application is weakening every day. I barely have a 3.0 GPA (3.6 for my major), lower GRE scores (but high AWA) ... and now, scattered recommendations.

 

I wish schools knew that not everyone applying to grad school was a star pupil in college or an expert at maintaining relationships with influential people. And I wish they had an inkling of an idea of how unfortunate it is when people give students their word in giving recommendations, then repeatedly screw them over. I have only so many resources to exhaust. It's already down to the wire for me.

 

I pray to God my writing samples and essays will be the tipping point in acceptance.

 

Ok again, I COMPLETELY understand. It's the EXACT same situ I'm in. But let me give you some hope here....I'm being recommended by 3 Assistant Professors, one having guided my Undergrad project. One of the other 2 has taught me 8 courses (including 4 lab courses) since my first year, and the other has done 6. What more, they're husband a wife! (Cheesy, I know!) 

 

After consulting a LOT of people, bottom line is that to a major extent, the position of your referee doesn't matter. One great recommendation from a normal professor is 2 more ordinary ones from top professors/ department heads. In fact, in your case, if the people in the lower positions have much more to talk about you, then I would suggest you prefer theirs completely over the higher ranking referees. In the end, what people say matters more than who says it. It's very rare for a higher official to say all those things about you, unless you've directly worked with them (otherwise, it'll just sound suspicious).  So have hope, you might have actually made the right choice!

Edited January 17, 2013 by Ohm

[hopeful80]

You really need to be a lot more firm. Don't be rude or demanding, but they need to help you if they promised to. Tell them the urgency of this and it needs to be in. It's part of their job to do recommendations, but if you've only contacted them once or twice, that doesn't show them the urgency you needed to.

 

I plan on doing so after my GRE passes. It's not cute anymore. What kind of has been holding me back is every time I send a friendly reminder, one of my recommenders in particular acts super annoyed and like it's the hugest pain. I'm never rude and I've never thrown a fit.

 

The last time I got a hold of him (it's seriously so difficult), I stressed the deadline to him and said if it wasn't in by then, ALL of my applications would be dropped and I would be automatically rejected. Then when I thanked him for giving me a rec, he said, "Thank me when I do it." That was just purely unsettling to me.

 

... but at this point I think I really have to stop holding back. He's not being easy with cooperating but I'm still going to see what I can do to coax it out of him.

 

He knows very well what he's doing and - I think - how much it's bothering me. I just have to play this game a little bit longer.

[hopeful80]

Ok again, I COMPLETELY understand. It's the EXACT same situ I'm in. But let me give you some hope here....I'm being recommended by 3 Assistant Professors, one having guided my Undergrad project. One of the other 2 has taught me 8 courses (including 4 lab courses) since my first year, and the other has done 6. What more, they're husband a wife! (Cheesy, I know!) 

 

After consulting a LOT of people, bottom line is that to a major extent, the position of your referee doesn't matter. One great recommendation from a normal professor is 2 more ordinary ones from top professors/ department heads. In fact, in your case, if the people in the lower positions have much more to talk about you, then I would suggest you prefer theirs completely over the higher ranking referees. In the end, what people say matters more than who says it. It's very rare for a higher official to say all those things about you, unless you've directly worked with them (otherwise, it'll just sound suspicious).  So have hope, you might have actually made the right choice!

 

This makes me feel so much better and gives me some hope! Thank you

 

It at least puts my mind at ease that I can send in those back ups like there's no tomorrow.

[bamafan]

Ok again, I COMPLETELY understand. It's the EXACT same situ I'm in. But let me give you some hope here....I'm being recommended by 3 Assistant Professors, one having guided my Undergrad project. One of the other 2 has taught me 8 courses (including 4 lab courses) since my first year, and the other has done 6. What more, they're husband a wife! (Cheesy, I know!) 

 

After consulting a LOT of people, bottom line is that to a major extent, the position of your referee doesn't matter. One great recommendation from a normal professor is 2 more ordinary ones from top professors/ department heads. In fact, in your case, if the people in the lower positions have much more to talk about you, then I would suggest you prefer theirs completely over the higher ranking referees. In the end, what people say matters more than who says it. It's very rare for a higher official to say all those things about you, unless you've directly worked with them (otherwise, it'll just sound suspicious).  So have hope, you might have actually made the right choice!

 

I agree that it is best to have the best recommendations you can get, regardless of who they are from. However, don't discount the power of reputation -- a letter from a PI who is famous or has connections at the institute you're applying to will go a long way. Within most fields, people know who the superstars are amongst themselves and their colleagues, and I've heard of adcoms saying "wow" when they receive one from a stud PI, and also going out to specifically investigate when a letter comes from someone they don't know. That doesn't mean they value it less, of course, but if they're not familiar, they will look into the recommender while a famous rec can potentially have high impact.

[hopeful80]

I agree that it is best to have the best recommendations you can get, regardless of who they are from. However, don't discount the power of reputation -- a letter from a PI who is famous or has connections at the institute you're applying to will go a long way. Within most fields, people know who the superstars are amongst themselves and their colleagues, and I've heard of adcoms saying "wow" when they receive one from a stud PI, and also going out to specifically investigate when a letter comes from someone they don't know. That doesn't mean they value it less, of course, but if they're not familiar, they will look into the recommender while a famous rec can potentially have high impact.

 

Ooh, my connections don't stretch  that far bama and I'm not too familiar with anyone in the literary/writing/communications world. The best I could do with work experience would be in the realm of marketing, and the best I could do with professors would be ones with no relevance to my field. I'm doing a complete 180 with grad school, here.

 

Thanks for your advice too!

[redsparrow]

Hey everyone, I just want to share my story here because you're among the few who could ever understand. My 3rd recommender's mother passed away I think last November, but she stressed that she was still committed to completing the recs for me. She stopped responding to emails once my final deadline passed (2 Jan), and last week I broke down and called the department she's a professor in at my alma mater. I asked the secretary to call her cell/personal phone for me, and just mention my name to her and that I was waiting for my recs. The secretary came back on the phone with me and said he'd just talked to my recommender, and that she had asked for my number and said that she would call me back. No call. And this is a woman I studied a lot with, and really felt like I clicked with, and she had said to me she would be "honored" to do my recommendations when I originally asked her.

 

I had that same panicking, horrible fear that every school would just reject me because my app is incomplete, so I called one of my top choices, and they said that my app will be considered even without the third rec. For those still stressing, maybe you should call one or two and see if you still have a chance somewhere. I haven't called anywhere else but that one school because I try not to get myself down about this, but it's really comforting to know that I'll at least be considered at one of the places I really wanted to go. On getting a third rec, I've mostly given up.

[hopeful80]

I just wanted to report back, everyone!

 

My recommenders, literally, at the very last HOURS came through. I was pulling my hair out with anxiety because the day of nothing was in yet ... but after checking in the evening, I got emails saying that my last two finally submitted them (they waited til the of but at least it's in!)

 

I would say in this case, DO NOT GIVE UP ON "PESTERING" PEOPLE. I know you're probably knotted up with stress because of other people's irresponsibility, but there is honestly nothing you can do about it. Once the deadline gets down to the wire (say, the week of) Don't be afraid to email people every day or every other day, hound them down in their offices, etc. Don't ever be hostile, screw that smile onto your face. If you're polite people will never have any excuse to get mad at you. "Gently" remind, and don't demand. Stress the urgency in a very calm way. Focus on what you can control. And even if they're miserable and submit late or right at the cusp, still show your appreciation. Don't forget to send thank you notes (this is not the time to burn bridges.)

 

Best of luck to you all!

[hopeful80]

Hey everyone, I just want to share my story here because you're among the few who could ever understand. My 3rd recommender's mother passed away I think last November, but she stressed that she was still committed to completing the recs for me. She stopped responding to emails once my final deadline passed (2 Jan), and last week I broke down and called the department she's a professor in at my alma mater. I asked the secretary to call her cell/personal phone for me, and just mention my name to her and that I was waiting for my recs. The secretary came back on the phone with me and said he'd just talked to my recommender, and that she had asked for my number and said that she would call me back. No call. And this is a woman I studied a lot with, and really felt like I clicked with, and she had said to me she would be "honored" to do my recommendations when I originally asked her.

 

I had that same panicking, horrible fear that every school would just reject me because my app is incomplete, so I called one of my top choices, and they said that my app will be considered even without the third rec. For those still stressing, maybe you should call one or two and see if you still have a chance somewhere. I haven't called anywhere else but that one school because I try not to get myself down about this, but it's really comforting to know that I'll at least be considered at one of the places I really wanted to go. On getting a third rec, I've mostly given up.

 

This is truly a unique situation and I'm glad the admissions committee understood. I too have a feeling that if you call and explain your situations (with proof to back your assertions up) most of the time schools will be very sympathetic. It doesn't hurt to give it a try, especially if deadlines are looming or have passed.

[LastGradStanding]

I'm dealing with a situation like this myself. My recommender agreed 2 months ago and still hasn't sent it. All of my applications which use him as a recommender are being held up. Worst of all is the fact that I mentioned him and my work in his class in my statement of purpose. He's well known in the field but his teaching, start-up, and MOOC seam to be higher priorities than this letter. I can understand the first two but the MOOC is a repeat with very little new work to do.

[selecttext]

Go see him in person
Professors are often busy and partially self-absorbed. It is disrespectful for him to make you chase after him, but if he agreed to send it - he will.

[Notker the Stammerer]

Go see him in person

Professors are often busy and partially self-absorbed. It is disrespectful for him to make you chase after him, but if he agreed to send it - he will.

 

 

Definitely go see your him in person.  But don't assume that just because a professsor agreed to write a letter that he will. Mine didn't. Almost $1000 in testing, application fees, etc. thrown down the drain, which is of course minor compared to the face that I won't be going to grad school this fall, if ever.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Notker the Stammerer

[selecttext]

what was his rational for not writing  you a letter?

[Ohm]

I just wanted to report back, everyone!

My recommenders, literally, at the very last HOURS came through. I was pulling my hair out with anxiety because the day of nothing was in yet ... but after checking in the evening, I got emails saying that my last two finally submitted them (they waited til the of but at least it's in!)

I would say in this case, DO NOT GIVE UP ON "PESTERING" PEOPLE. I know you're probably knotted up with stress because of other people's irresponsibility, but there is honestly nothing you can do about it. Once the deadline gets down to the wire (say, the week of) Don't be afraid to email people every day or every other day, hound them down in their offices, etc. Don't ever be hostile, screw that smile onto your face. If you're polite people will never have any excuse to get mad at you. "Gently" remind, and don't demand. Stress the urgency in a very calm way. Focus on what you can control. And even if they're miserable and submit late or right at the cusp, still show your appreciation. Don't forget to send thank you notes (this is not the time to burn bridges.)

Best of luck to you all!

That's good news But a word of caution too...some people (like my ex-guide) are even bothered by 'gentle' reminders. I was in fact accused of being a 'customer'to him and no longer a student...and this was because I sent him ONE gentle reminder the day before the deadline. People are weird...you should know who and what you're dealing with :/

Edited February 4, 2013 by Ohm

[Ohm]

Definitely go see your him in person.  But don't assume that just because a professsor agreed to write a letter that he will. Mine didn't. Almost $1000 in testing, application fees, etc. thrown down the drain, which is of course minor compared to the face that I won't be going to grad school this fall, if ever.

Sorry to hear that...i survived a very similar situation this time, but thankfully had a last minute referral. I'm sure you will find someone too...every student has some prof who he/she is a favourite of Doesn't matter if he's a lecturer or a doctorate....as long as he can talk good and personally of you.

[Notker the Stammerer]

what was his rational for not writing  you a letter?

 

I haven't the slightest idea.  He's never responded to my emails or phone calls.  I'm currently overseas,and have been for the past year, so office visits weren't possible. 

[rising_star]

Notker, instead of just giving up, you should contact the programs and see if they'll accept late letters. Many will, for various reasons.

[selecttext]

You should also contact your other referees and apprise them of your difficulty with referee #3. If you have a good relationship and they are in the same department as #3, they may petition him on your behalf. It is really bad form and disrespectful to not deliver a promised letter without any explanation.