Decisions! Wayne State University or Queen's?

[obrera]

Hey guys,

 

I don't know much about American schools and programs, so I am looking for your input. I was accepted to the English Lit PhD programme at Wayne State (WSU). I want to work with radical labour poetry and song from 1910-1939, and WSU has most of the archival material that I would need to do so. I'm just wondering if anyone knows anything about WSU that they could offer me, or about living in Detroit. Would a PhD from WSU serve me better than a PhD from a top Canadian school, especially if I'm focusing on American poetry? Queen's is a top-ranked school with an excellent program. I would not get as much teaching experience at Queen's, but the teaching load at WSU is 2-1, which seems like a lot. Queen's is a good fit faculty wise, though, and I could drive to the archives at WSU without much trouble.

 

Anyway, feel free to ask me anything for the sake of clarification. Thanks in advance!

[dmmar]

A PhD from Queens would definitely have a LOT more prestige than one from Wayne State. I don't think having slightly less teaching experience from Queens would really hurt you in the job market. 

 

I don't really know much about Ontario, but I live in Michigan and used to go to Detroit fairly often, so I can tell you a little about that location at least. Detroit is a really interesting city, but it's not for everyone. If you do move there, you should definitely live in the city proper, and check out different neighborhoods because some of them are really dangerous. Rent is often really cheap for great places, if you can find them (a lot of the loft apartments in Detroit are amazing). If you like places that are in a state of post-apocalyptic ruin so far advanced that nature is actually taking over again (lots of big empty lots that look like prairie's, pheasants and coyotes wandering the city), then Detroit might be a good place for you (I'm saying these things as a positive actually, because that's what Detroit really looks like, and I think it's beautiful. It's actually somewhat quiet there, the streets are often empty, lots of post industrial looking "ruin porn"). Detroit is starting to get some decent restaurants again, and I know that if they haven't already, they're at least trying to get some real grocery stores. But it's not the kind of place that has traditional "city life." 

[TakeruK]

I used to go to Queen's University. It is definitely NOT a top ranking Canadian school. Maybe it's in the top 10, but that's not saying a lot in Canada since we have so few schools. 

 

I am also slightly biased because I really disliked the way the administration treated graduate students on campus. For example, the Principal (Scottish system, so a Principal instead of a President) visited our department one December and told us that in order to save money, we should stop funding Masters students. He said this knowing that Masters students were part of the meeting! Not funding MSc students in the US may be the norm, but in Canada, the regular path is BSc then 2 year MSc then 3 year PhD -- i.e. he was basically suggesting that the department stop funding students for the first 2 years of grad school!

 

Anyways, I don't know how Queen's compares to WSU though, so maybe it's still a better choice. I'll also stop publicly ranting about Queen's but if you're interested, you can PM me for more details or questions.

 

But I can tell you a bit about Kingston! It is a very historic city and it used to be Canada's capital. It's also nicknamed the Limestone City, and many of its buildings are made of beautiful limestone. In fact, many of the buildings are historic so they don't tear them down. So, there are beauty salons inside converted houses and your doctor's office might be in a house too. It's really really nice in the summer but not so great in the winter. It's on the shore of Lake Ontario, which sometimes freezes enough in the winter for you to skate on (at your own risk!). There are also a lot of good food places, all sorts of European and North American restaurants. Not so great for other kinds of foods though. It's also kind of nice that Kingston is 2-3 hours away from Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal (in different directions), so it's not too far from the big cities (but far enough that it's not super convenient to get there). This means sometimes big ticket shows that are touring in Toronto and Montreal will stop along the way and play in Kingston too.

 

Some netural aspects -- it's a University town. There are about 120,000 residents and a good fraction of them are students! Between Queen's, the Royal Military College of Canada, and St. Lawrence College, I think it's something like 30,000 students. So there are lots of things to do at night during the school year. But I really think Universities towns are better suited for undergrads than grad students! Being a big university town means that the area near campus is very poorly maintained and landlords overcharge for rent! There's some tension between the residents and the students as well.

 

There are some downsides too. It's definitely not a diverse town. Over 95% of its population is Caucasian, so it's very homogeneous. It's also where Canada puts most of its prisons, so when a convict is committed, the rest of their family moves to Kingston and then they usually all stay there after the sentence ends. So there are some bad areas in town. Kingston does have most of the major stores (except for ethnic groceries) but you kind of need a car to really get around. One of the worst parts is that it is really hard to get from Kingston to anywhere else that's not reachable by car. You basically have to get to Toronto or Montreal to fly anywhere. When I had to go to places on the west coast, the total travel time was about 14-16 hours. It would take about 3-4 hours to get to the airport (by bus) and due to bus schedules not lining up with the flight, I would usually have to wait around another 3-4 hours before my flight leaves. So more than half of the travel time is spent just getting out of Toronto! Although it wasn't all horrible, my wife and I were still very happy to get out of Kingston (and its cold winters) when I was finished my MSc! Your experience may be different though

[obrera]

I used to go to Queen's University.

 

Wow, you sure typed out a lot. I am sorry to say, though, that I did my MA at Queen's, so I know most of what you said about the city and the school. The department has treated me well as an MA, and they fight for MA funding. It's currently ranked 4th overall in Canada, but as you said, it's not really that substantial because there aren't that many larger institutions in Canada. 

[mfmill03]

Hi obrera,

 

Barrett Watten at Wayne State is an incredible asset to the department. If you haven't checked him out yet, you should. I'd shoot him an email--see what he says about your project, for example--and gauge it from there. Hope that helps?

[asleepawake]

I just turned down an offer from Wayne State, but I think the program looks fantastic and generally underrated. I would have been happy to have attended if the season had gone differently for me. Maybe you could ask each program about job placement, if they haven't already provided that information online?

Edited March 4, 2013 by asleepawake

[TakeruK]

Wow, you sure typed out a lot. I am sorry to say, though, that I did my MA at Queen's, so I know most of what you said about the city and the school. The department has treated me well as an MA, and they fight for MA funding. It's currently ranked 4th overall in Canada, but as you said, it's not really that substantial because there aren't that many larger institutions in Canada. 

 

Ah okay -- our department also fought for MSc funding and treats us really well too! After the principal said that, the reaction from all of the profs was encouraging. I believe this is probably true through most of campus, but it's unfortunate that the administration isn't so supportive! 

[obrera]

Ah okay -- our department also fought for MSc funding and treats us really well too! After the principal said that, the reaction from all of the profs was encouraging. I believe this is probably true through most of campus, but it's unfortunate that the administration isn't so supportive! 

I agree. Funding is tight at Queen's unless you're in one of the admin's fav. disciplines, although I am sure that is pretty standard across the board.

 

Does anyone else want to weigh in on WSU v. Queen's? I really don't know much about the program at WSU, and it would be great to hear some bad/good things.