Apply to IR PhD programs next year or do a terminal MA?

[pacificists]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm in my third year of undergrad and I'm hoping to apply to to grad school programs next fall. I'm concerned about whether or not my application will be strong enough as-is next year, especially because of my overall grades. Ideally, I don't want to close myself off to any of the top programs, but I wanted your opinion as to whether I'm competitive enough for those kinds of programs. If not, which programs should I be aiming for? Thanks!

 

Ideal Programs: IR, focusing on East Asia

Undergrad: University of Chicago

Major: Political Science

Minor: Statistics

Overall GPA: 3.72

Major GPA: 3.86

Relevant experiences: Lots of research assistantships with various departments (psychology, behavioral economics, business school, law school, etc.) Started writing papers on China as an intern for a fairly well known think tank earlier this year.

Languages (besides English): Chinese (native/proficient), Japanese (intermediate)

No GRE scores yet. I don't know how well GPA and/or SAT scores correlate to GRE performance, but I do pretty well on standardized testing so I figured I'd throw those numbers out there for your judgment.

SAT Math/Reading: 800/750

 

So my questions are,

1) What kinds of programs can I realistically hope to get into if I applied next fall?

2) What kinds of programs should I look into?

3) Is there anything I can do to improve my chances?

Edited March 5, 2013 by pacificists

[cooperstreet]

You have a 3.72 from Chicago, you're fine.

[Guest hopefulfool]

I am sure you will do well on the GRE and your GPA is fine. I think you should probably talk to your undergrad political science advisor about your plans because he/she will probably offer the best advice as he/she knows you better than anyone on here. In terms of MA or PhD, I would focus on PhD applications and apply to one or two MA programs. 

[eponine997]

I second what cooperstreet and hopefulfool have already said.  

 

But would add 2 things:
A terminal MA costs money (even with a tuition waiver, there is still cost of living).  But in some cases it is worth paying for if you have deficiencies (low GPA, no related experience - though it sounds like you do not, your GPA is fine) OR if you want to work at a think tank or similar, an MA (or BA) might suffice for this.  

 

PhDs are (though I cannot exactly speak from personal experience) grueling.  Be sure that's what you want.  If your goal is TT professor and you are sure, DO IT!  A terminal MA might help you clarify your goals if you are unsure, but it sounds like you have the background for a strong application and it is just a matter of putting it together (talk to other students (grad and undergrad, advisors, profs you've RA'd for, etc. have them look over your writing samples, SoP, etc.).  

 

As far as where, what hopefulfool said, talk to your advisor, and current profs (this is also handy rapport-building when it comes to LoR writing, the better they know you, the better the letter they can write).  Also, check faculty bios on department websites, read CVs, see who is researching what you want to study.  

[PoliSwede]

It sure sounds like you will be an excellent candidate for PhD programs when you apply. The only reason I can think of as to why you shouldn't apply to a PhD program is if you're not sure if graduate school is for you. A MA might serve as a trial run in that case. But even then, you could go to a PhD program and leave with a terminal MA.

[ThisGuyRiteHere]

Go Straight if you can

[pacificists]

First of all, thanks for everyone's input. It has definitely clarified some things for me. I'll be speaking with the department chair more about this later this week.

 

Originally, my plan was to work as a research assistant for a think tank for one or two years and then apply for my PhD from there with the intention of going into research for think tanks, but a grad student has told me that there is a huge chasm between policy and academia, and that it's hard to move between the two worlds. I'm not sure which I would enjoy more at this point, and I'm not sure how exaggerated the grad student's claims are. Does anyone here have experience in policy and can elucidate the matter?

Edited March 5, 2013 by pacificists

[ThisGuyRiteHere]

Mnemonics does. Hit him up

Political Science and Policy are two completely different beasts.

[IRToni]

I might be able to offer some perspective from my experience.

 

I graduated in 2012 from a pretty well-respected foreign university (European student). Had a higher GPA than you, but the school is less well-known, so it probably doesn't make much difference. I incidentally also have the same specialization (IR/China), speak Chinese (not heritage, taught), and spent 2011/2012 abroad, studying and interning in China.

 

I ultimately decided to go for a (fully-funded) terminal MA program (in Europe) in IR, because I wasn't sure whether I wanted to do policy or research work. The path really became clear to me only when writing my senior thesis, and even more so during my first semester of my terminal MA program, and I don't regret the decision one bit, because I felt I wasn't ready to commit to something for 5+ years, not knowing whether I actually want to do academic work in the future.

 

In Europe, in general, though, you do a MA before doing a PhD, and most schools don't have a strict division between academic and professional Masters. Incidentally, my school does have this division, and I am in the more academic Masters, and overall really like it. For me, it is/was a way to clarify my goals, get acquainted with graduate-level work, and get better exposure of the field as a whole. In that way, I think be worth it to do a terminal MA, and even in the US, looking at top schools, there's, I believe more and more people that have a MA before comming in.

 

Just my .02, of course!

Edited March 6, 2013 by IRToni

[pacificists]

IRToni, you mentioned that your MA program helped you clarify your goals. Do you mind elaborating on that? Do you feel more inclined to go into academia now, or do you find that you might enjoy policy better?

[darkhorse]

Do a terminal MA if you can, many people that drop out or get culled don't have a masters degree.  Plus you can re-evaluate whether you really want to do a PhD or not, which is difficult to know as an undergrad.

[saudiwin]

Hi friend --

 

I think you want to be careful about doing a "terminal M.A.". A terminal M.A. is one that is disconnected from a PhD program--i.e., the program does not issue any PhDs at all. I did a terminal M.A. in a foreign policy school, and I had a similar experience to our European colleague in that it convinced me that I really wanted to do a PhD. However, I didn't make that realization until my final semester, and because I did a terminal M.A. I didn't have a degree that easily segued into a PhD program. My degree was aimed at producing good candidates for the job field, not academia, and it did that very well, but it made it difficult to then use my research and training to apply for a PhD.

 

So my advice is that it makes sense to take time off to think about a PhD before you do one because it is a career decision and it will take years and years. But if you go for an MA, try to get into an MA program that is as highly ranked as possible and connected to a well-established PhD program. That will 1) allow you to gather lots of information about PhD programs, profs and lifestyles and 2) allow you to check off a lot of your PhD boxes. In fact, if you go to UofC, its not a bad idea to try to use your dept connections and enroll directly in their MA program. Maybe they'll even let you take some grad classes your senior year. Then you can always take a year or two off and work before going ABD.

 

Some thoughts for you, friend. It sounds like you're on a great trajectory if you want to do a PhD!

[adaptations]

pacifists,

Given your credentials, you will be a strong candidate for PhD programs. Coming from Chicago, your GPA will be viewed as very strong and you will presumably have letters from well known faculty, so you should be in good shape. If you reach the decision and are certain that a PhD is right for you, then I would apply directly. That said, if you are unsure about whether you want to earn a PhD, it can be very valuable to get experience outside of academia. The huge investment in a PhD is probably not worth it unless you are certain that it is exactly what you want to be doing.

Working outside of academia can help give you a sense of what the outside options are. For some people, this affirms their desire to earn a PhD and for others it opens their eyes to a world of other opportunities that may be more appealing than academia. Another option that you might consider (if it's not too late) is doing the joint CIR MA with your undergrad work at Chicago. I know a few people did this when I was there, and it allowed them to participate in more graduate level courses and seminars (PISP, PIPES, etc). If you take advantage of these opportunities, you will have a pretty good idea of what a graduate program will be like, which should help you make your decision.

Best of luck,

adapt

[darkhorse]

Hi friend --

 

I think you want to be careful about doing a "terminal M.A.". A terminal M.A. is one that is disconnected from a PhD program--i.e., the program does not issue any PhDs at all. I did a terminal M.A. in a foreign policy school, and I had a similar experience to our European colleague in that it convinced me that I really wanted to do a PhD. However, I didn't make that realization until my final semester, and because I did a terminal M.A. I didn't have a degree that easily segued into a PhD program. My degree was aimed at producing good candidates for the job field, not academia, and it did that very well, but it made it difficult to then use my research and training to apply for a PhD.

 

So my advice is that it makes sense to take time off to think about a PhD before you do one because it is a career decision and it will take years and years. But if you go for an MA, try to get into an MA program that is as highly ranked as possible and connected to a well-established PhD program. That will 1) allow you to gather lots of information about PhD programs, profs and lifestyles and 2) allow you to check off a lot of your PhD boxes. In fact, if you go to UofC, its not a bad idea to try to use your dept connections and enroll directly in their MA program. Maybe they'll even let you take some grad classes your senior year. Then you can always take a year or two off and work before going ABD.

 

Some thoughts for you, friend. It sounds like you're on a great trajectory if you want to do a PhD!

 

While this may not be the optimum trajectory for a PhD, in the worst case scenario this person will be well positioned to get a job.  It is much better to do a professional masters degree and bemoan how it didn't prepare you for the PhD than to get into a rigorous PhD program and spend four years before you figure out that a PhD is not for you.

[Mnemonics2]

Mnemonics does. Hit him upPolitical Science and Policy are two completely different beasts.

I do indeed. I'm young but have done the whole MA, RA in think tank, fellowships in policy while publishing in both policy and academia. Now I've just accepted an offer...but I've got to say that the two worlds will only work for you if you are either lucky or plan it right. PM me (and anyone else) if I can help, here or in the real world.