Qualifying Exams

[wilderbeast]

Hi everyone.

So this might only be a hard sciences thing, or maybe a physics and math thing (not sure how common it is) but all the schools I've applied to have a qualifying exam that must be passed before you can get your PhD (you get kicked out of the school if you exhaust all the tries without passing :shock: ). At the school I'm accepted at so far, you get 3 tries to pass; you have to take it every time its offered until you pass, and that means taking it first thing in the fall semester this year. Having already dealt with the GREs hindering my career (i.e. keeping me out of two schools), I don't want another test to block me from my career goals. Anyone else have to do this? Are you worried? I haven't even seen the practice qualifiers yet, but I'm already nervous that I'll not do well.. are there other fellow commiserators out there? And if so, what will you do to prepare for the quals?

[MaximKat]

I don't get it. You must take the exam at the very first semester? How can you possibly pass it without studying for a year or two?

[Tritonetelephone]

I would check back with the school. Everything you described is very common, except that there is almost always a coursework prerequisite to taking the qual's. In one soc department I visited, for example, you have to pass two qualifying exams. Before taking each, you need to take 3 courses in a particular concentration.

That school also gives you a committee of three faculty members to help you prepare for the quals (which I think is less common), and each exam is 3 "essay" questions with a time limit of 6 hours total. These are good things to find out about when you visit!

[wilderbeast]

Wow, quick replies!

I don't get it. You must take the exam at the very first semester? How can you possibly pass it without studying for a year or two?

Yeah - it's basically a check that you've mastered all of undergraduate physics. It's crazy. I guess I thought it wouldn't be until the end of the first year, but I talked to a professor there today and it seems that it's first thing in the fall. It's almost like the physics subject GRE, but will test higher level material (junior and senior level physics).

They told me it's two days of testing back to back, 5 hours each day of solid tests! :shock:

[UnlikelyGrad]

I don't know much about physics programs, but it's very common in chemistry programs--you take the ACS tests (organic, inorganic, physical, analytical) and have to pass a certain number of them. Some schools say you have to pass a certain number, so you keep taking them until you do (with, as you mentioned, a limited number of tries); some say that if you don't pass you have to take remedial coursework. What I've found is that some schools explicitly mention testing on their website, and some don't mention it until you're admitted.

By the way, this testing thing is not a new development; my dad had to do this when he started grad school 40+ years ago. He told me that the part he failed was the test on the class he did best in as an undergrad...but he passed tests on classes he'd done poorly on! Go figure! Anyway, I plan to spend the summer studying; I did fairly well on the GRE chem test, but not well enough. (A school I'm waitlisted at specifically mentioned my "low" GRE chem score as a red flag on my application...I got 67th percentile.)

[Aceflyer]

Qualifying exams are a very common thing in grad school - I'm not personally even aware of a grad program in my area that doesn't have a qualifying exam.

The style, format, and timing of qualifying exams varies dramatically from program to program - the passing rate also varies widely. Some programs are notorious for using qualifying exams as a means for 'weeding out' students. Asking about qualifying exams is very important before you make a decision as to where to go. Ideally you would want to go to a program that administers quals early on (so you don't waste 2-3 years there only to not pass and get kicked out) and that wants everyone to pass if at all possible. I don't know about you but it doesn't sound like fun to be in a program where 30-40% don't pass quals!

Two days of 5-hour exams don't sound too bad. Many of my friends have taken quals that consisted of a 5-hour exam the first day and an 8-hour exam (9 if you don't take an hour off for lunch!) the next day. There are harder quals that involve a whole week of day-long exams...

[flit]

Yikes! Makes my language requirement pale in comparison. I SO do not envy you .... best of luck with it.

[psi*psi]

I don't know much about physics programs, but it's very common in chemistry programs--you take the ACS tests (organic, inorganic, physical, analytical) and have to pass a certain number of them. Some schools say you have to pass a certain number, so you keep taking them until you do (with, as you mentioned, a limited number of tries); some say that if you don't pass you have to take remedial coursework. What I've found is that some schools explicitly mention testing on their website, and some don't mention it until you're admitted.

By the way, this testing thing is not a new development; my dad had to do this when he started grad school 40+ years ago. He told me that the part he failed was the test on the class he did best in as an undergrad...but he passed tests on classes he'd done poorly on! Go figure! Anyway, I plan to spend the summer studying; I did fairly well on the GRE chem test, but not well enough. (A school I'm waitlisted at specifically mentioned my "low" GRE chem score as a red flag on my application...I got 67th percentile.)

BTW, no qualifying exams at Michigan for chemistry.

[samsarictraveler]

I'm not a physicist myself (anymore!) but I still have a lot of friends in physics. The thing to remember is that you don't have to impress anyone, you don't have to do well, all you have to do is pass. The thing to remember is that this is physics you already know.

Comps are intense for everyone in every field.

[Nardo]

original poster: I think the test you're referring to is not the dept's qualifying exam. A number of depts, but not all, require their incoming students to take an exam on the breadth of their undergrad work sometime soon after you begin taking classes. One of my potential depts has this setup, and they call if the "January Exam." I guess they give you the first semester to study.

The conventional qualifying exam occurs after you've finished all your course work, usually at the end of the second year, and is supposed to determine if you're capable of conducting independent research in your chosen field.

What school are you thinking of going to?