Grad School in History And the Recession

[stupor_mundi]

Hello,

Perhaps this subject has already been addressed. I am curious, how have people's graduate school priorities/choices changed in light of the global economy? Personally, it's making me reconsider the amount of debt I'm willing to accept to continue my education. Also, I imagine that the competition will be fiercer than ever this time around, with all the people hoping to "wait out" the job market by seeking an advanced degree. (This is probably more prevalent in disciplines other than history.) Undoubtedly, the money available for graduate students will be less. Right? And if the economy continues it's slide, what about the state of the academic job market? What are your thoughts as aspiring historians? Discouraged? Undaunted?

Personally, I'd like to say undaunted, but I must admit that when I tell friends who have been struggling for months in the job market, or have been laid off, that I want to study medieval history, I can't help but feel a bit frivolous. I imagine I'll pursue the same course regardless, because it's my personal American dream, but I guess I wonder how other potential graduate students are handling the same pressures? Thoughts?

[limeinthecoconut]

Hello,

Perhaps this subject has already been addressed. I am curious, how have people's graduate school priorities/choices changed in light of the global economy? Personally, it's making me reconsider the amount of debt I'm willing to accept to continue my education. Also, I imagine that the competition will be fiercer than ever this time around, with all the people hoping to "wait out" the job market by seeking an advanced degree. (This is probably more prevalent in disciplines other than history.) Undoubtedly, the money available for graduate students will be less. Right? And if the economy continues it's slide, what about the state of the academic job market? What are your thoughts as aspiring historians? Discouraged? Undaunted?

Personally, I'd like to say undaunted, but I must admit that when I tell friends who have been struggling for months in the job market, or have been laid off, that I want to study medieval history, I can't help but feel a bit frivolous. I imagine I'll pursue the same course regardless, because it's my personal American dream, but I guess I wonder how other potential graduate students are handling the same pressures? Thoughts?

This has been bugging me as well. I guess I told myself that I really just want to do the PhD, just for pure interest sake. And when I return to my home country, I'll be "okay" with teaching in high schools with a doctorate.

On a happier note, my field is pretty small, so competition is not *that* insane, relative to a field like American history. In a recent (maybe a couple of months) study done by the AHA, the supply in my field did not exceed the demand by too much. So hopefully things will work out, and I get to work in a university.

Erm, if I even got funding for the school that I was admitted to.

[synthla]

Well if you start a history program this fall, odds are you probably won't be entering the job market for another 6 or 7 years, at the earliest, so you can take comfort in the fact that there is a decent chance that the economy will have turned around by that point. But really, it is, to a not inconsiderable degree, a leap of faith, I think. Personally, I've been working in a completely different career path for the last 5 or 6 years, and I can tell you that if you're not following your dream, you're less likely to be satisfied with whatever it is your doing, no matter how much more stability or financial reward is attached - so if you have a passion for history, you probably need to pursue it, if you're comfortable with your school options. Luckily, I can always fall back on my current career if needed, so I've been able to approach the Ph.D process from that perspective - that is, attaining the degree is worth it in and of itself; how many people have the chance to focus on exactly their own interests? Not many; I'm excited to be one of them for a few years. Obviously, that's easier if the school is providing you some guaranteed funding, but while the economy may impact the amount of money available, you'll still know about that aspect before you ever accept a school's offer.

So this has been a long way of saying: undaunted, personally.

[blukorea]

Hello,

Perhaps this subject has already been addressed. I am curious, how have people's graduate school priorities/choices changed in light of the global economy? Personally, it's making me reconsider the amount of debt I'm willing to accept to continue my education. Also, I imagine that the competition will be fiercer than ever this time around, with all the people hoping to "wait out" the job market by seeking an advanced degree. (This is probably more prevalent in disciplines other than history.) Undoubtedly, the money available for graduate students will be less. Right? And if the economy continues it's slide, what about the state of the academic job market? What are your thoughts as aspiring historians? Discouraged? Undaunted?

Personally, I'd like to say undaunted, but I must admit that when I tell friends who have been struggling for months in the job market, or have been laid off, that I want to study medieval history, I can't help but feel a bit frivolous. I imagine I'll pursue the same course regardless, because it's my personal American dream, but I guess I wonder how other potential graduate students are handling the same pressures? Thoughts?

I am only a second year grad student, but here are my two cents: the History PhD market has certainly suffered and will continue to suffer. My sympathies go out to all those who are currently in the job market, just because things are so much tougher and will not improve anytime soon. I know a number of accomplished senior-level grad students who are not getting offers.

That said, this is today's economy in general, so wherever you go, whatever you do, the situation will not vary by a great deal. I know a good law school student who is about to graduate but still does not have a job despite scattering a hundred resumes.

Nowadays most private schools offer packaged funding, which means that you will remain unaffected by the economy for 4-5 years when you are working towards your degree. However, the number of applicants will have skyrocketed and the number of offers will have shrunk, so you must have exceptional credentials in order to get some of these offers.

If I am confident about my commitment to the historian's profession and about my capacity to excel, then there really is neither a good reason nor a good alternative to simply pressing on.

[futurePhD]

Hello,

Perhaps this subject has already been addressed. I am curious, how have people's graduate school priorities/choices changed in light of the global economy? Personally, it's making me reconsider the amount of debt I'm willing to accept to continue my education. Also, I imagine that the competition will be fiercer than ever this time around, with all the people hoping to "wait out" the job market by seeking an advanced degree. (This is probably more prevalent in disciplines other than history.) Undoubtedly, the money available for graduate students will be less. Right? And if the economy continues it's slide, what about the state of the academic job market? What are your thoughts as aspiring historians? Discouraged? Undaunted?

Personally, I'd like to say undaunted, but I must admit that when I tell friends who have been struggling for months in the job market, or have been laid off, that I want to study medieval history, I can't help but feel a bit frivolous. I imagine I'll pursue the same course regardless, because it's my personal American dream, but I guess I wonder how other potential graduate students are handling the same pressures? Thoughts?

Regardless of the state of the economy, under no circumstances should you be willing to go into any amount of debt to get a Ph.D. in history. The job market for History has been horrendous even when the economy has been relatively strong. Even if you are able to find a decent job, how are you going to pay off debt with your meager salary from a job in academia? Going after your dream is fine (I'm doing the same thing), but realize that accepting any debt to continue your education in the humanities would be a colossal mistake.

[blukorea]

Regardless of the state of the economy, under no circumstances should you be willing to go into any amount of debt to get a Ph.D. in history. The job market for History has been horrendous even when the economy has been relatively strong. Even if you are able to find a decent job, how are you going to pay off debt with your meager salary from a job in academia? Going after your dream is fine (I'm doing the same thing), but realize that accepting any debt to continue your education in the humanities would be a colossal mistake.

Not that I disagree with futurePhD, I have gotten conflicting advices from my undergraduate mentors. They said that if it comes down to a really good program with $15k per year versus an average program with $20k per year, the former is the way to go, although $15k is probably not enough for a decent person's living. I think a manageable amount of debt is acceptable, and sometimes even unavoidable, if the program is top-notch and a great fit. True that going into any debt is undesirable, but that should not completely stop you from going to where you wish.

[StrangeLight]

i was etching out a nice little resume for myself in journalism when i decided to apply for a history PhD. i realized this is what i really want to do, so i'd still go into the field regardless of the state of the economy. i won't be crushed if i can't get a teaching job at a LAC or university upon graduation. people change careers 2 or 3 or 4 times nowadays, and for me, the PhD is the end itself, not just a means to another end (i.e. being a professor).

just the other day i was talking to a friend about moving to a small fishing village somewhere south of the equator, eating what i catch that day, selling the rest at the local market, and growing all my fruit and veggies in my garden. if that's where my life takes me i'll be one of the luckiest people i know. i don't need an $80K salary from a research university to feel fulfilled, so the economy doesn't really scare me away from doing a PhD. it scares me for a host of other reasons, but my personal job security's not one of them.

[TMP]

I do not care one bit. I'm flexible enough that I'll work wherever I can find a job that won't reject me just because I'm overqualified with a history PhD. If I get an offer to be a professor, then great. If I get an offer as a research fellow at an institute, then great. If I get an offer as a historian in a museum, then fantastic. Whatever gets me a job that involves some historical research when I'm done with my PhD. I just want the opportunity to do research and study what I love for 7 years.

[synthla]

just the other day i was talking to a friend about moving to a small fishing village somewhere south of the equator, eating what i catch that day, selling the rest at the local market, and growing all my fruit and veggies in my garden. if that's where my life takes me i'll be one of the luckiest people i know. i don't need an $80K salary from a research university to feel fulfilled, so the economy doesn't really scare me away from doing a PhD. it scares me for a host of other reasons, but my personal job security's not one of them.

Well put - I'm the same way... already completed one graduate program and had that career during the best economic times I could imagine for it, now I'm moving on to something else. I sincerely hope that I find a great academic job after getting my Ph.D., but I'm studying history because I love history so it will be worth it for me regardless. If I don't get such a job, there are many, many other things I'd like to do before I die.

[stupor_mundi]

All admirable responses. Your graduate programs will be lucky to have students with such passion! It seems you can all be counted as undaunted. As for myself, I do worry about what I think of as the practical concerns (i.e. If I spend 8 more years in school, I want a decent job in my field when I get out!). I suppose I couldn't count myself "discouraged" but like everyone else looking for work in this economy, I'm certainly concerned.