Getting started on applications for Fall 2014

[SocGirl2013]

Hi everyone,

 

I have been following this forum for the last few months and you guys have some wonderful advice about grad schools in Soc.

 

I want to get into a PhD program for Fall 2014 and could use some advice as I begin the process.

 

I recently finish college with a double major in Soc and English, with a high cumulative GPA. I don't know how much this means, as I am doing my undergrad at a relatively unknown and not ridiculously selective private liberal arts college. I will be presenting my undergrad senior thesis for Soc at a conference this August, and am somewhat involved as a research assistant in one of my teacher's projects.

 

I am not concerned about my grades, but the GRE is my one big nightmare. I have taken numerous mock tests, and even with a ton of practice, could not score above 156 Verbal and similar in Math. I plan to take the test at least twice between now and November, but I honestly don't think I test well enough to change this number significantly even with a lot of prep. If you guys have some advice on how to improve on that front, it would be wonderful. But if I cannot get better scores, how badly does it affect my chances of getting into a good program?

 

My top choice is Princeton, mostly because their inter-disciplinary Soc program would be of interest to me. I do understand that it is very unlikely I get in to Princeton and have made somewhat of a preliminary list. I am afraid to branch out of the Tri-State area, so currently the other schools on my list are: Columbia, New School, NYU, CUNY Grad Center, UConn and Yale. Again, I feel that my location-specifc needs are a little on the immature side. With my low GRE potential, what are the odds I could get into one of those programs? How seriously do I need to begin considering relocation?

 

Any advice at all for a starter would be greatly appreciated in general. Thank you so much!

Edited November 24, 2013 by fuzzylogician
edited for privacy at OP's request. --fuzzy

[oilandvinegar]

I am obviously not to concerned about my grades, but the GRE is my one big nightmare. I have taken numerous mock tests, and even with a ton of practise, could not score above 156 Verbal and similar in Math. I plan to take the test at least twice between now and November, but I honestly don't think I test well enough to change this number signifcantly even with a lot of prep. If you guys have some advice on how to improve on that front, it would be wonderful. 

 

I am afraid to branch out of the Tri-State area, so currently the other schools on my list are: Columbia, New School, NYU, CUNY Grad Center, UConn and Yale. 

 

Okay, so my two thoughts are:

 

Have you considered taking a prep course for the GRE? If you can find the money, I really feel that they're worth it. If you've done the prep-books consistently and thoroughly, this may not matter as much, but I liked the flow and discipline of a course. It was very much worth it for me. It was online and $400.  I ended up with a 165 on the quantitative and a 168 on the verbal. And a lot of the courses have money back guarantees so it might be worth considering one in between tests if you're 100% set on taking two. 

My second thought is about leaving the tri-state area: The number one factor in admissions is fit. Yes, GRE scores matter and the adcomm forum has more information on this, but the primary factor is fit. So I wouldn't apply to a school just because it's in the geographic region you're interested. You'll need to be able to demonstrate that your interests align with faculties' and the program's strengths. 

I wouldn't say that not leaving the tri-state area is immature, as I know people who have left programs because the location simply didn't work - they really hated the location (primarily politics or weather), their partner/spouse was somewhere else, they needed to be close to family for one reason or another. If you think your reason really would make you unhappy or unsuccessful elsewhere, then don't ignore it.

That being said, I'd think carefully about why you don't want to leave the tri-state area. You'll miss out applying to some really great programs that could be a perfect fit if you have really strict geographic requirements. 

[LugubriousJones]

You have a lot of time to set a GRE study schedule and significantly improve your score.  I don't think you should already be preparing for this to be a weakness on your application.  Get some good workbooks (I used the ETS book and Kaplan) and just put in the time with a lot of drills and practice tests.  If you study well, which your GPA indicates, then you should "test well" too.  Given the months you have, don't settle for this being a weakness.  

[SocGirl2013]

Okay, so my two thoughts are:

 

Have you considered taking a prep course for the GRE? If you can find the money, I really feel that they're worth it. If you've done the prep-books consistently and thoroughly, this may not matter as much, but I liked the flow and discipline of a course. It was very much worth it for me. It was online and $400.  I ended up with a 165 on the quantitative and a 168 on the verbal. And a lot of the courses have money back guarantees so it might be worth considering one in between tests if you're 100% set on taking two. 

My second thought is about leaving the tri-state area: The number one factor in admissions is fit. Yes, GRE scores matter and the adcomm forum has more information on this, but the primary factor is fit. So I wouldn't apply to a school just because it's in the geographic region you're interested. You'll need to be able to demonstrate that your interests align with faculties' and the program's strengths. 

I wouldn't say that not leaving the tri-state area is immature, as I know people who have left programs because the location simply didn't work - they really hated the location (primarily politics or weather), their partner/spouse was somewhere else, they needed to be close to family for one reason or another. If you think your reason really would make you unhappy or unsuccessful elsewhere, then don't ignore it.

That being said, I'd think carefully about why you don't want to leave the tri-state area. You'll miss out applying to some really great programs that could be a perfect fit if you have really strict geographic requirements. 

 

I did consider a prep-course, but it doesn't seem like something I can afford. I am an int'll student so upon graduation, I'll need to get a place of own and do with whatever work I can get for the whole year. It is already a huge financial burden and I have to budget very, very wisely. Maybe if I do atrociously on my first try, I might move things around and try to save the money if the prep is going to help me. This whole process is so expensive, with the application fees and everything. *sigh*

 

I can't say I have good enough reasons to be attached to the tri-state area. It is mostly because this is the only home I know away from home where all the life I have build over the past 4 years lies... it's an irrational fear I have, moving into a new place where I know nobody and becoming to depressed to thrive in my coursework. At the same time, I am very dedicated to an academic life and my social concerns seem trivial in the pursuit for the ideal grad school. I am definitely going to start looking at schools in other areas more seriously. Hopefully I will have a good list in a few months because I want to start emailing faculty that match my interest and asking questions and such. Is it standard to do that?

 

You have a lot of time to set a GRE study schedule and significantly improve your score.  I don't think you should already be preparing for this to be a weakness on your application.  Get some good workbooks (I used the ETS book and Kaplan) and just put in the time with a lot of drills and practice tests.  If you study well, which your GPA indicates, then you should "test well" too.  Given the months you have, don't settle for this being a weakness.  

 

You are absolutely right! I am just SO neurotic when it comes to planning my future and start identifying weaknesses long before they are due. I just had a horrible experience with the SATs in high school and somewhat worry that there is such a thing as an inherently poor test taker.

[LugubriousJones]

You are absolutely right! I am just SO neurotic when it comes to planning my future and start identifying weaknesses long before they are due. I just had a horrible experience with the SATs in high school and somewhat worry that there is such a thing as an inherently poor test taker.

 

Something that helped me when studying: try to build up your stamina to think, concentrate, and remain sharp for 4 hours straight, with only brief breaks.  So in addition to the practice tests, get used to doing 30 minute drills with 5 minute breaks, for a total of 3-4 hours each time.  By the time you take the actual test you'll be used to the length and you won't feel intimidated or mentally drained toward the end.  I was running a lot during my study period, so I had a physical/mental fitness regimen.  This made it less boring and helped a lot with the stress.  Come test day, sitting down and working out problems for a few hours wasn't a big deal.  

[La_Di_Da]

Just a GRE reminder: You don't have get stellar scores, just high enough to make the first cut. Look at what the average verbal/quant scores of admits are for various soc programs. If the programs to which you are planning to apply don't publish these stats, check the stats of comparable programs. Northwestern posts theirs, and I think Notre Dame does too. In any case, these stats will give you a feel of what the approximate GRE cut-offs are for most top 20 sociology programs.

 

Do the best you can on the GRE. Meanwhile, and most importantly, focus on making the rest of your application strong. Do your homework regarding fit. Touch base with faculty. Make connections. This part of the process can pay off in surprising, unexpected ways.

Edited March 18, 2013 by La_Di_Da

[SocGirl2013]

Something that helped me when studying: try to build up your stamina to think, concentrate, and remain sharp for 4 hours straight, with only brief breaks.  So in addition to the practice tests, get used to doing 30 minute drills with 5 minute breaks, for a total of 3-4 hours each time.  By the time you take the actual test you'll be used to the length and you won't feel intimidated or mentally drained toward the end.  I was running a lot during my study period, so I had a physical/mental fitness regimen.  This made it less boring and helped a lot with the stress.  Come test day, sitting down and working out problems for a few hours wasn't a big deal.  

Those are excellent study tips. Thanks so much!

 

Just a GRE reminder: You don't have get stellar scores, just high enough to make the first cut. Look at what the average verbal/quant scores of admits are for various soc programs. If the programs to which you are planning to apply don't publish these stats, check the stats of comparable programs. Northwestern posts theirs, and I think Notre Dame does too. In any case, these stats will give you a feel of what the approximate GRE cut-offs are for most top 20 sociology programs.

 

Do the best you can on the GRE. Meanwhile, and most importantly, focus on making the rest of your application strong. Do your homework regarding fit. Touch base with faculty. Make connections. This part of the process can pay off in surprising, unexpected ways.

In terms of making the rest of my application strong, what are some of the things I could do between now and application season?

As I said in my OP, I will be presenting my undegrad thesis at a regular session at a conference in August. I would like to use this time to make some connections but I have never been to an academic conference before, and don't know how to approach people, or how it even looks like. I am so new to the world of academia and it makes me anxious.

[socgrad2013]

What do you want to, um, research?

[La_Di_Da]

 I would like to use this time to make some connections but I have never been to an academic conference before, and don't know how to approach people, or how it even looks like. I am so new to the world of academia and it makes me anxious.

 

Have you identified faculty with whom you'd like to work, and have you familiarized yourself with some of their research? That's number one. If you have, and you know you'll also be attending the conference meetings, send an introductory email, ask your POIs if they'll be attending and/or presenting, and if they are, what sessions. Then, if your schedule allows, attend a few sessions, introduce yourself, and be sure to ask questions. If you're not comfortable with this level of introduction, begin with an email, initiate a brief dialog spanning a wider arc of time, and try to get some feedback. The latter method may be the least anxiety-ridden for you.

[SocGirl2013]

What do you want to, um, research?

 

I have a small variety of interests that culminate in an intersect between sociology of food and globalization. I would like to continue (as I started in undergrad) studying the impacts of globalization (in the form of neoliberalism, or environmental classism) on food security for developing countries. Apply the World Systems theory to the production and distribution of food and such. 

 

I am also interested in, but don't have as much knowledge and experience about, the study of cultural deviance (not quite criminal deviance though but maybe more in a subculturalist sense). 

 

The two obviously don't collide in any way shape or form, and I am much more inclined to thrive doing research in the former so I guess one of the things I'd be looking for in grad school is if they have good faculty for the soc of food, globalization, environmental sociology and somewhat of a combination of those. It hasn't proven easy finding the perfect programs for this, but I only just started seriously looking not long ago. It seems like a long way before I will have some kind of a list.

 

Have you identified faculty with whom you'd like to work, and have you familiarized yourself with some of their research? That's number one. If you have, and you know you'll also be attending the conference meetings, send an introductory email, ask your POIs if they'll be attending and/or presenting, and if they are, what sessions. Then, if your schedule allows, attend a few sessions, introduce yourself, and be sure to ask questions. If you're not comfortable with this level of introduction, begin with an email, initiate a brief dialog spanning a wider arc of time, and try to get some feedback. The latter method may be the least anxiety-ridden for you.

 

Thank you for some great advice. I would definitely be much more comfortable initiating dialogue over email, perhaps a few months prior to the conference meetings. 

[stephchristine0]

Just a GRE reminder: You don't have get stellar scores, just high enough to make the first cut. Look at what the average verbal/quant scores of admits are for various soc programs. If the programs to which you are planning to apply don't publish these stats, check the stats of comparable programs. Northwestern posts theirs, and I think Notre Dame does too. In any case, these stats will give you a feel of what the approximate GRE cut-offs are for most top 20 sociology programs.

 

Do the best you can on the GRE. Meanwhile, and most importantly, focus on making the rest of your application strong. Do your homework regarding fit. Touch base with faculty. Make connections. This part of the process can pay off in surprising, unexpected ways.

I have a 139/144. Do graduate programs avoid admitting applicants even if the rest of their application was stellar?

[blogstarphd]

I have a 139/144. Do graduate programs avoid admitting applicants even if the rest of their application was stellar?

No. They will still admit you.

[La_Di_Da]

I have a 139/144. Do graduate programs avoid admitting applicants even if the rest of their application was stellar?

 

Yes. Though programs will state that there is no minimum GRE requirement for admission, in practice it appears that each program enforces a cutoff. I was told by my POIs that the GRE matters most during the first pass, when the grad school whittles the pool of applicants down to those its going to forward to the adcomm for review. Your GRE scores must be high enough to make this first cut. Unfortunately, 139/144 is, to my knowledge, way too low for most programs, that is, unless you intend to apply only to programs that place no weight on GREs (which programs that may be, I haven't a clue) or to schools that allow you to waive the GRE requirement on philosophical grounds, in which case you typically write an essay explaining why you philosophically oppose the GRE requirement* (I know an English PhD who did just that, but that was for an English program).  Adcomms may also refer back to your GRE scores later in the review process to make additional, narrow determinations between two prospective admits, but I don't know how much of an impact GRE scores make beyond the initial cutoff. To gain greater insight into the inner workings of an admissions committee, and how GRE scores factor into the review process, you will want to read this thread:

 

Most schools will tolerate moderately low verbal scores (I'm not sure why). In any case, I would say shoot for at least a Verbal near 158, approximately 580 on the old scale, or higher (preferably 160), and a 155 (700 on the old scale) or higher for Quant. Although, if you're wanting to specialize in quantitative sociology, best to have a Q score in the 160s. If you're one or two points below 160/155, and the rest of your application is strong, I'd rest with that. Also, check the GRE stats for previous applicant pools. Some schools, like Northwestern, post the average GRE scores for the previous year's applicant pool as well as for students admitted. And, if you're an international student, a program may tolerate lower than average verbal scores. I would assume the TOEFL becomes the more meaningful verbal marker for international students.

 

It will be in your best interest to retake the GRE. Additionally, if you have not previously taken a GRE prep course, and can afford to do so, I highly recommend registering for one.

 

Edit: Well, just now read Blogstar's post above. As noted, probably varies by program.

 

*You still take the GRE and submit your scores, but essentially request that the adcomm ignore them.

Edited March 20, 2013 by La_Di_Da

[La_Di_Da]

p.s.: Keep in mind that I'm writing with respect to sociology programs, StephChristine, not oceanography.

[stephchristine0]

p.s.: Keep in mind that I'm writing with respect to sociology programs, StephChristine, not oceanography.

Thank you for your response, helps me greatly!!!

[SocGirl2013]

Just curious, would a 158 V and 155 Q theoretically be enough to make the cut-off for the top 20 programs, if everything else about the application is stellar?

[La_Di_Da]

Just curious, would a 158 V and 155 Q theoretically be enough to make the cut-off for the top 20 programs, if everything else about the application is stellar?

 

I would say, yes, especially if English is not your first language and the rest of your application is stellar. If English is your first language, then I think you might want to try for the equivalent of at least a 600 on the verbal, which is, I think, around the order of a 160 by the new scale; but like I said in my previous post, a 158 can work, based on what I've seen from the stats. A 160V with a 155Q and a stellar application would make you a perfectly viable contender, in my lay opinion.

 

For soc programs that are NOT quant heavy, upwards of 160 (600+) for verbal and 153 (680+) for quant is acceptable. For quantitative programs, you'll want a strong verbal score plus a quant score that is upwards of 160. 

Edited March 20, 2013 by La_Di_Da

[SocGirl2013]

Thanks, that's very helpful!

[La_Di_Da]

Thanks, that's very helpful!

If you haven't already, visit the survey results page for sociology. Highlight reported GRE scores by rolling over the red diamonds with your cursor. You may want to look at scores reported for previous years, too.   http://thegradcafe.com/survey/index.php?q=sociology

[SocGirl2013]

This is amazing, thank you!

[stephchristine0]

I got a 330 or so for V back in 2011 and 510 for Q and the GRE scaled these to 143 and 144 respectively. 

 

that makes no sense point wise....

[jmu]

I got a 330 or so for V back in 2011 and 510 for Q and the GRE scaled these to 143 and 144 respectively. 

 

that makes no sense point wise....

 

The reason they changed the scoring was to make it so people didn't seem farther apart than they actually were from other individuals as well between skill sets. While on the old scoring it may appear that you were way more skilled in math than verbal, in the new one it shows that you were about equal in each of those in terms of how you did. Although, because the percentile is different between the two and still being calibrated the numbers will change. I would encourage people to aim for percentiles rather than scores. If you are about 60-70% in each you should do fine.