Marine/Environmental Chemistry PhD program - Top 10 vs. low ranked

[rileydcat]

I'm having a tough time deciding between two marine/env chemistry programs and would like some input please!

 

School A - Top 10 private university (not ivy) 

 

pros: full tuition remission, health insurance and fees paid, 28K RA stipend for 5 years, exciting research opportunity, up-and-coming professor, collaboration possibilities between several other local universities and government agencies, large campus, tons of social events, nice large city, great sporting events, no true qualifying exams - just presentation and defense of dissertation proposal, tons of coursework options

 

cons: several hours drive to the nearest ocean, very minimal fieldwork, mostly lab work, far from my SO, possibility for "small fish, big pond" syndrome, if I bring in outside funding it would go towards relieving the departmental tuition grant so I wouldn't see that money

 

School B - Low ranked public university

 

pros: full tuition remission, health insurance, 22K RA stipend for 5 years, exciting research opportunity, the professor is at the top of his field, collaboration possibilities between local government agencies, lots of fieldwork involved, research cruises, the campus is on the ocean, beautiful scenery and city, small intimate campus, the department is growing despite university-wide budget cuts in other departments, only 2 hours from SO, if I bring in external funding it goes into my pocket

 

cons: the department branch only houses grad students and researchers, less social events, no sporting events, in a state that I'm not particularly fond of, small city, limited coursework options at the branch - would have to drive to the main campus for more options (~30 min drive), POI is up there in age

[stephchristine0]

School A, no doubt.

[midnight]

A. It just sounds like a better overall opportunity and like you'll have more support even without taking ranking into consideration.

[sansao]

Hmmm.. I think I'd take school B. It sounds like the better choice for fieldwork, networking, and proximity to your research topic. How are the individual departments ranked at each school? And what's "low"? Do you want to drop names, or get the most out of grad school?

[student12345]

Are you referring to the school's overall rank or the department rank? And how low is "low"?

[rileydcat]

I was addressing the overall rank of each school: School A is top 10 and School B is ~172 nationally. As for the departments, School A is ~40 and School B is un-ranked for earth sciences. 

[iowaguy]

I personally would not attend a university ranked 172 in the nation with an un-ranked department for my sub-field, given that A is an option.

[student12345]

I was addressing the overall rank of each school: School A is top 10 and School B is ~172 nationally. As for the departments, School A is ~40 and School B is un-ranked for earth sciences. 

The school's overall rank should not factor into your decision. But the department rank is a clear indicator to me that you should be attending school A.

[sansao]

The school's overall rank should not factor into your decision. But the department rank is a clear indicator to me that you should be attending school A.

Yeah, agreement here. The overall ranking won't mean much, but that the department is unranked would give me pause. A lot of pause, lol.

[rileydcat]

I've come to the conclusion that in order to get truly informed opinions, I should just probably go ahead and divulge more information.

School A = Duke University Nicholas School of the Environment, PhD in Environment (env chem & tox)

School B = University of South Florida College of Marine Science, PhD in Oceanography (chem)

 

As for the department rankings, I had been going by US News grad school rankings. I spoke with a professor from my alma mater the other day about my concerns and he disagreed, stating that these two programs were about even at Tiers 2 or 3. 

 

Does anyone have any opinions in response to this information? 

[wabisabi]

 The overall ranking won't mean much, but that the department is unranked would give me pause. 

I've found that atmospheric science program rankings, at least, don't translate well into US News Earth Science rankings. Colorado State has a very well-regarded program, but is ranked #69 by US News. The rankings for Scripps also don't line up well with US News putting them at #17. Some of this effect may be evident in rileydcat's field, maybe?  I think the broad US News ranking really can't capture nuances of individual programs.

 

rileydcat -- If you've only looked at US News, you could maybe also consider the NRC program rankings (Duke and USF). Maybe talk to some other profs? I know the university/dept prestige issue is weighing on my mind too lately, and I've heard two conflicting things. One school of thought says it's all about where you got your PhD, the other says it's much more important that you publish a lot. So I don't know what advice I have, other than to look beyond US News.

[iowaguy]

I disagree with your professor.  University of South Florida College of Marine Science is not in the same league as Duke Nicholas School.  I would guess USFCMS is barely known outside of Florida, I have never heard of it and I have been eating, sleeping, and dreaming about different Grad Programs for a year now.

 

In the Environmental Health & Toxicology field, Duke has an NRC s-ranking of 3-32, and r-ranking of 2-22.  (Those are the 5% and 95% confidence intervals.)  As you mentioned earlier, South Florida is not ranked.  In the Earth Sciences field, Duke has an NRC s-ranking of 21-52 and r-ranking of 37-91.  As you mentioned earlier, South Florida is not ranked.

 

Not trying to diss on USFCMS, but just stating the ranking facts about Duke as found in NRC's grad school rankings of 2011.  It might be that being close to your SO is such a strong factor in your decision matrix that you decide to attend USFCMS.  But otherwise, I don't see any logical reason to attend USFCMS given the pro's of attending Duke with a full stipend...

[ZacharyObama]

A - Duke Nicholas - I'm sure you'll manage to get a substantial amount of fieldwork in despite being relatively landlocked, also IMHO a younger POI is probably better considering the length of a PhD program. Your SO can travel to you.