Santa Cruz, Davis, UChicago--feelings?

[ILikeCatsALot45]

Has anyone else been accepted to Santa Cruz? If so, let's discuss its pros and cons, such as the fact that it's not a traditional English program. That's why I originally applied, but more and more I'm wondering if it's too untraditional to get a job at the end.

Has anyone been rejected from UChicago's PhD program, but offered pseudo-admission in the form of a spot in their MAPH program? If so, can you tell me why I should choose this over a fully-funded spot at Santa Cruz (beside that Chicago was my top choice)?

If you were accepted at Chicago, can you tell me what I was competing against, so I can sleep tonight?

Davis? Anyone? I've been waitlisted but pretty much told I'll be accepted as soon as someone drops off (so if you've been accepted and aren't going...let them know, please!)

I feel weird asking this last question...but let's face it, if you were accepted to a school that you're excited about but rejected from a school that was your top choice, you've thought it too: Does anyone know anything about "transferring" from one PhD program, after earning a MA, into a better PhD program?...Is it something people do?...Obviously I know the first PhD program wouldn't be too jazzed, so I'm looking for answers about how prevalent it is to do such a thing, not how "unfair" it is.

[cyborges]

I don't know about Davis or UChicago, but I was accepted to Literature at UC Santa Cruz (we are talking about literature, not "english," right?). My feeling is that it's a very interdisciplinary program that could, perhaps, be more properly titled "Media, Literature, Culture" or something like that. There seems to be a heavy focus on critical theory, materialism, marxism, and postmodernism in general, which is why I applied in the first place (coming from an interdisc. standpoint, I wasn't a Literature major in undergrad).

I'm excited about the prospect of UCSC, but I'd like to know what you and others think. Are you attending the April 2/3rd dates?

I'm also curious about Santa Cruz's ranking, but it's actually very hard to find be the program isn't called "English" or "Comp Lit," but something more ambiguous. Something from like 2002 says it's 38, but does anyone have any more recent info?

Good luck to those who haven't heard yet... I'm still waiting on MIT and oh god it is frustrating.

[engguy]

I don't know why the OP is so down on UCSC... I visited there last spring and thought it was wonderful. Not sure what you want to study, but they have a nice range of faculty that covers pretty much everything, as far as I could tell. Some very bright lights and big names, like Nathaniel Mackey and Ty Miller, along with strong profs in various fields. Also, it's a gorgeous campus in a very cool town, public trans is supposed to be excellent, etc. They're also very serious about wanting you to learn a language, which I thought was a good thing -- they have mandatory intensives during the summer, and one grad student we met was already teaching latin to undergrads for his TAship.

Drawbacks: the library was less than impressive, and the cost of living is high, considering what they give you. They also have a funky 3-semester system which didn't sound too appealing to me.

As for whether to go to a funded PhD vs. unfunded MA at your top choice, I couldn't say. I wouldn't do it, but that's just me. If there's something specific you want to do at UC that you absolutely can't do anywhere else, then maybe. Otherwise, what's the point?

[sonicsustain]

Davis? Anyone? I've been waitlisted but pretty much told I'll be accepted as soon as someone drops off (so if you've been accepted and aren't going...let them know, please!)

Same goes for UCSC. I'm on the top of the list, so if you're gonna drop them, let them know ASAP!

Thanks!

[ILikeCatsALot45]

*

[cyborges]

Life story? I went to a very untraditional undergraduate liberal arts college (Hampshire) where there are no tests, no grades, and everyone must complete a series of projects in order to graduate. I didn't study literature explicitly -- I wrote my thesis on cyborgs as a metaphor for existence in the 21st century, which is the primary reason I applied to UCSC in the first place. I imagine I'll have a bit of access to Donna Haraway, who teaches in History of Consciousness, and that's helpful. I would have applied to both Literature and HistCon, but most UCs don't let you apply to more than one program per school and HistCon only had 3 spots this year, so I went with Literature. I'm actually glad for it (mostly because I got in) because it seems like Literature allows you to basically study what you want (for me, Body/Subjectivity, Kinetic Movement and Experience, Virtual/Actual) but trains you to be a "Literature" professor in the meanwhile (Postmodernism, Science Fiction, 20th Cent. French, 19th Cent. Italian, etc).

This is probably cause for more discussion. UCSC is interesting because Literature is ambiguous, as I said before, like they squashed English and Comp Lit together and decided to sprinkle some media and culture studies in there (garnished with your Marx, or perhaps the cooking metaphor should end. Yes, it should.). I was also a bit dismayed by the lower ranking than expected, but I also recognize, having gone to a school like Hampshire, which ranks 100+ every year even though I'm confident it is ultimately and interesting and intellectually stimulating place, that the rankings use very straightforward methods of placing schools -- to the point that they can be totally inaccurate. Obviously, getting a job with a PhD from Harvard, Yale, Columbia, or Chicago is much easier because of the name, but being confident in a cool or interesting project at a school that actually lets you embark on such journeys (and funds it) is maybe more worthwhile. In the end, you'll have truly original work to speak for you, or at least that's the idea. And since we're all trying to be literature/english/comp lit professors here, I'd say stay young and don't get into debt. Santa Cruz offered you funding (right? three years or whatever unconditional?) and they want you (we're two of 12-15, and 10% of the pool)... they're willing to spend the next 7 years with you. And who wants to spend 7 years in a traditional program and then teach in one for the rest of their lives anyway?

That's not really a life story, but I'd happily share more.

Unfortunately, I know nothing about Santa Cruz's library, so I can't really comment.

[cyborges]

Cyborges...can I hear your life story too? What was your undergrad major? Did you apply to other English/Lit programs? Where else have you been accepted/rejected? Like you, I'm also wondering about the rankings...by wondering, I mean they are driving me crazy; I think US News and World Report might actually be a creation of Satan. Do you know anything about job placement? I think I might email Hollie C. and see if she has some kind of info on that. And yea, I'll be going April 3rd, you?

Sorry, let me address this more directly in addition to my last post. I usually call my undergraduate major "Continental Philosophy" or "Media and Cultural Studies," but its basically a liberal arts degree with a huge thesis project attached to it. I DID apply to other literature programs, but all of the interdisciplinary sort. I applied to Literature at Duke because Katherine Hayles teaches there, along with other megastars like Fredric Jameson. I also applied to Rhetoric at Berkeley (Butler) and Modern Thought and Literature at Stanford. I was rejected from all of those places, and in retrospect I regret not applying to English at Stanford instead of MTL.

Outside of Literature, I applied to Modern Culture and Media at Brown (rejected) and History, Theory + Criticism of Art and Architecture at MIT. Still waiting on MIT. So unless MIT accepts me with funding I'll probably be going to UCSC.

I do find it a bit dubious that Literature doesn't list their current grad students and their former grad students and their placements. That could be helpful info, and I'll definitely try to figure it out at the visiting weekend. If you do email Hollie C, please let me know what she says.

[engguy]

I can PM you if you want but I'm not going to post my life's story for all to see.

Let me just say this: I was accepted to a top-20 prog last spring and I ended up turning it down. It's not that I think rankings are bunk, there were just other things more important to me. It's certainly worth your while to check into placement, but if you're worried about getting a job NOW, going into the phd -- in this economic climate -- well, I don't know what to say. In other words, things are so bad imo that you should look at where you'll be happiest and do it for the love of the field (and not worry about finding a job, which may be a very long time coming anyway). Besides, you may be surprised to learn that some programs far down the USN rankings have much better placement rates than those higher up.

'

What was the issue with UCSC's library? Well, you'll see for yourself. It's already pretty small, and while I was there they were engaged in a multi-year project of some sort wherein a great deal of their holdings weren't even available. There was talk of a partnership agreement with Stanford's library, but -- let's be honest here -- how often are you going to shoot up to Stanford just to use the library? At any rate, as I look back on it now, all things being equal, I would have gladly gone to Santa Cruz. As I said before, it's a lovely campus and I really enjoyed meeting with and talking to the faculty and current students. Best of luck with this, both of you...

[ILikeCatsALot45]

Haha. To both: The "life story" thing was more a sarcastic comment in reference to the fact that I asked you a billion questions...I should have put a disclaimer on it, sorry! (Then again, what do you expect from someone whose name is "ILikeCatsALot45"--certainly not a lot of social grace.) I just meant: can you tell me where you're at, why you've chosen your current situation, etc.

Engguy...Thanks for your helpful perspectives. I think you convinced me out of doing the MAPH at Chicago. Sorry for seeming creepy.

Cyborges...Yea, their funding package is great. And you're right, I don't want a traditional program, and I'm slowly coming to terms with the fact that I don't want to teach in one either; it might just be the weirdness of that thought, after pursuing a career as the typical "English professor" for so long, that's causing me to question whether this is the best idea in the long run. I know I would have to set aside a lot of what I like, for required courses, to pursue the more traditional route... Well, at any rate, you've made me feel better about the whole thing. And Hollie C. just emailed me this link, the likes of which I tried to find several times but completely missed: http://literature.ucsc.edu/graduate/alumni.php

I wish it had a few more current listings, but I guess it's fairly helpful.

[cyborges]

awesome, thanks for the link. and I just checked the 2009 USNEWS listing and UCSC is 39th... so it's still top 40 (!).

Why do you like cats so much?

[irishcoffee]

It looks like you've already made a decision, but when I read your initial post, I was a bit worried about ya! I mean, come on! You're comparing what you describe as your perfect PhD program, funded to boot, to an unfunded MA? And your only reason is a stupid, rather arbitrary list somewhere?

Santa Cruz, all the way! :wink: Congrats!

[ILikeCatsALot45]

Thanks, irishcoffee, for the congrats. Unfortunately, that arbitrary and stupid list is actually the reality of the judgments of the people from whom one day I will be begging a job; it's compiled based on the opinions and ratings of programs by professors of other programs, so it's hard not to be concerned about it. But I have decided to ditch the MAPH program at Chicago. I will, however, face another dilemma if I get into Davis off of the waitlist, on which I'm one or two, because that's also full funding...

So to come back to that question....anybody have thoughts/opinions/knowledge on Davis?

[Lisa]

Don't have much to add, just that I was accepted to UCSC's lit program as well and am going up to the April 2/3 weekend. (I also got into UCR's comp lit and am waiting to hear back from UCI, Rutgers, and UMich, which at this point I'm assuming are all rejections. However, after reading the thread about the master's disadvantage, I'm really thankful I got accepted into 2 programs both with full funding. Plus, I've taught high school for 7+ years, which I've heard is considered a negative to some schools.) My major concern (along with getting a job after grad school) is cost of living; I've checked into some apmt's, etc. and it's pretty pricey (and I live in So. Cal right now and am used to expensive housing!). But then again, I'm giving up a good paying job to go back to school (and my husband would be as well), so I guess it's just hitting me a little hard right now.

BTW, those of you visiting, are you staying with the grad students or in a hotel?

[sonicsustain]

BTW, those of you visiting, are you staying with the grad students or in a hotel?

I found Knight's Inn online. The hotel's downtown, and it's $50 a night after taxes.

[Lisa]

I found Knight's Inn online. The hotel's downtown, and it's $50 a night after taxes.

Nice; that's cheaper than any I found.

[lyonessrampant]

I'd pretty much second the other advice about accepting a funded Ph.D. over the unfunded MA. I turned down a funded offer to Notre Dame (for a variety of reasons) to go to UC's MA program with funding, and I still had to borrow quite a bit. In this economy, if I were you, I'd go for less debt, a program that sounds like it fits your interests better, and a guaranteed position leading to a Ph.D. I loved my MAPH year actually and am a far better scholar than I think I would have been if I'd gone the Notre Dame route, but that said, I also have a lot more debt. . . Either way, good luck!

[sierra]

You have gotten great answers to most of your initial questions. As for transferring, well, that is mostly frowned upon. When you correspond with programs they will tell you that they do not consider students who are already in a PhD program in the same field they are applying to - meaning that even if you have completed the MA portion they will not review your application. You would have to get an MA and clearly indicate that that is all you intended to do at the initial school, which is something adcoms will most likely not believe. On the other hand, if your project is a great fit at another school and you correspond with the grad chair and multiple professors who agree and encourage you to apply, then there may be hope. I am transferring from one program to another. I already have an MA from another program where I only went for an MA. The whole process was very tricky - especially because I wanted all my coursework and language requirements to be transferred from one PhD to the other - they never take another institution's comps. Santa Cruz is a great choice, academically and otherwise. But if you think your project fits better at Davis, which has amazing faculty members, you should wait to hear from them. Good luck.

[ILikeCatsALot45]

Sierra--Thanks for answering that question. Do you mean that you are in a PhD program, but knew you were only going to stay there through your MA, or that you are in an MA program and are now moving into a PhD program? I'm assuming the former...How did you convince them to look at your app, transfer your credits, etc.? What program are you in/transferring into (if you feel like sharing). I assume I won't want to transfer out of either program, but I'm just curious in case it does turn out that I'm unhappy. The other thing is that I really regret not applying to some programs, which I'm sure I'll get over, but right now...I'm not over it yet.

As far as Santa Cruz vs. Davis, the only thing I'm worried about is that employers will look at Santa Cruz's program as not having adequately prepared me to teach standard courses.

[ILikeCatsALot45]

Oh, and another question...what did you plan on doing if you weren't accepted into another program? Would you have stayed in the same program?

[Lisa]

As far as Santa Cruz vs. Davis, the only thing I'm worried about is that employers will look at Santa Cruz's program as not having adequately prepared me to teach standard courses.

ILikeCatsALot's concern has crossed my mind too. Anyone with any thoughts/evidence for this or to the contrary of this??

[sonicsustain]

As far as Santa Cruz vs. Davis, the only thing I'm worried about is that employers will look at Santa Cruz's program as not having adequately prepared me to teach standard courses.

I've been wondering about this, too. It would seem that the program would be ideal for someone entering into a funded research position after school, but standard curriculum may be an issue. Wouldn't placement data help to figure this out to an extent?

[Lisa]

Does anyone have placement data (stat/rates) on UCSC?

[ILikeCatsALot45]

This is the placement data they offer: http://literature.ucsc.edu/graduate/alumni.php. There are a lot of people listed who have gone on to work in English and Literature programs, but because it's a "sample" listing (supposedly, and God, I hope so), it leaves me wondering where MOST people have ended up. Do you think it would be weird (well, I guess it would be, but would it be acceptable) to e-mail one of the professors listed and ask if they encountered any difficulties trying to get a job?

[sonicsustain]

I'm going to try to get in touch with one of those professors who apparently teaches here at my ungergrad institution.

Someone I know that did graduate from UCSC did mention some difficulty when trying to get what could be termed "standard" teaching positions after the fact.

[commoner]

Knight's Inn is less downtown, more Boardwalk. Pretty scuzzy area (think hookers and whatever kinda drugs you are looking for).