Caltech vs Yale for Environmental Engineering

[eekes]

So I've been accepted to PhD programs at both Yale (Chemical and Environmental Engineering) and Caltech (Environmental Science and Engineering), and I'm currently debating which one I should ultimately attend. Both programs provide similar stipends and there are professors at both schools that I could see myself working with, so I’m mostly concerned with the issues of quality of life and professional development.

 

I am interested in going into industry as opposed to academia after graduating, so I’ve tried to look at each program with that goal in mind. Caltech is generally ranked higher and I liked how enthusiastic all of the grad students were, but I got the impression during my visit that it could be a bit of a pressure cooker. Yale on the other hand seemed to have more relaxed students, and even though it is ranked a bit lower, I can’t imagine a graduate degree from Yale being looked down upon. If I’m interested in industry, I could see Yale having a small advantage because of its larger student body and alumni network (more chances for networking).

 

Can anyone comment on their experiences at either school in terms of happiness and ease of finding a job post graduation?

[NanoTech]

You should go to Caltech. Major employers will laugh at your PhD degree from Yale and simply toss your resume away. Yale engineering is that low. It's like night and day. We all know that Caltech is highly competitive... but nothing comes easy.

[tarrman]

I second that, although I don't think graduate degrees are ever "looked down upon", but some are viewed more favorably than others.

Caltech's location is much better for both living and job opportunities. Even though Yale has a larger student body, Caltech is more well-known for engineering and will provide you with better opportunities.

[floridabio]

CALTECH no question

[eekes]

Well, it sounds like Caltech could be the one. Would your recommendations change if I was considering leaving with a masters? Yale offers a terminal masters, whereas Caltech only awards masters to people that have dropped out of the PhD. There is some stigma that a masters from Caltech is a "failed PhD," but I would be surprised if this was well known outside of academic circles.

[iowaguy]

I wouldn't start a Caltech PhD program if you seriously thought that you'd quit halfway with just your M.S.?!?  There's no guarantee that Caltech would grant you a Masters if you dropped out/weren't performing up to expectations...  Sounds like you're nervous that you won't be able to cut it at Caltech?  I'm not saying that to diss on you, but it comes across that it's a concern of yours...

 

Why would you want the stigma of a Masters (failed PhD).  Why not just get your M.S. somewhere if you thought that's what you ultimately wanted from grad school?  You might burn bridges with most/all of your professors (letter of reference writers) if you drop out...

Edited April 4, 2013 by iowaguy

[ak48]

have you visited both campuses? That's usually a great way to make a decision.

 

Engineering at Yale is substantially worse than at Caltech, even though the university has started to devote more money to amping up its program.

[eekes]

I wouldn't start a Caltech PhD program if you seriously thought that you'd quit halfway with just your M.S.?!?  There's no guarantee that Caltech would grant you a Masters if you dropped out/weren't performing up to expectations...  Sounds like you're nervous that you won't be able to cut it at Caltech?  I'm not saying that to diss on you, but it comes across that it's a concern of yours...

 

Why would you want the stigma of a Masters (failed PhD).  Why not just get your M.S. somewhere if you thought that's what you ultimately wanted from grad school?  You might burn bridges with most/all of your professors (letter of reference writers) if you drop out...

 

I'm sure that I could cut it at Caltech, I'm just more worried about whether I would be miserable doing it. I've been working in a lab for a while at my undergraduate campus and have met enough grad students that hate their lives that I am trying to consider quality of life issues for my own grad choices. I want a PhD, but I also want to leave myself an out just in case. 5-6 years is a long time to hate yourself. 

 

I visited both campuses, and I got the sense from a few of the Caltech students that they wish they had dropped early. Everyone seemed happy at Yale. Just seeing if this lined up with other peoples' impressions

 

Thanks for the help everyone. 

[TakeruK]

Well, it sounds like Caltech could be the one. Would your recommendations change if I was considering leaving with a masters? Yale offers a terminal masters, whereas Caltech only awards masters to people that have dropped out of the PhD. There is some stigma that a masters from Caltech is a "failed PhD," but I would be surprised if this was well known outside of academic circles.

 

Caltech ESE/GPS does not offer a terminal MS program, which is why many would (correctly?) consider Caltech Masters a "failed PhD". I think (but not certain) that this is different from most engineering programs elsewhere, where MS degrees are more common and useful. I know what you mean about being worried about getting stuck in something you don't like for 5-6 years. That's why I did a MSc in Canada first (where it's normal to do a masters then a PhD, and both are funded). 

 

Also, I'm currently in Caltech GPS. I'm not in ESE but a lot of division requirements is common between the options within GPS. If you want to ask more specific questions, go ahead and send me a PM (but you might already have contacts from your visit!).

Edited April 4, 2013 by TakeruK

[ak48]

FWIW I was choosing between Caltech and Yale for undergrad. I chose the latter, and when I visited for PHD visits I was completely convinced I made the right choice.

[TakeruK]

FWIW I was choosing between Caltech and Yale for undergrad. I chose the latter, and when I visited for PHD visits I was completely convinced I made the right choice.

 

I think the Caltech undergrad experience requires a certain kind of student in order to succeed. I am happy here as a graduate student but I am confident that if I had gone here for undergrad, it would have been a horrible fit. I think the moral of the story is that for many schools, the undergraduate and graduate experiences could be very different.

[compiler_guy]

I think the Caltech undergrad experience requires a certain kind of student in order to succeed. I am happy here as a graduate student but I am confident that if I had gone here for undergrad, it would have been a horrible fit. I think the moral of the story is that for many schools, the undergraduate and graduate experiences could be very different.

Agreed, graduate and undergraduate programs in the same university offer different experiences.  A Caltech undergraduate experience is quite different from a Yale undergraduate experience, and a Harvard graduate experience is different from a Harvard undergraduate experience.

 

 

I am interested in going into industry as opposed to academia after graduating, so I’ve tried to look at each program with that goal in mind... If I’m interested in industry, I could see Yale having a small advantage because of its larger student body and alumni network (more chances for networking).

 

Did you check out where are the alumni of both programs, what typical jobs do they get after graduating? This could be a great indicator for your future goals. The alumni network you should look into is the alumni of your POI's lab and research area. The general "Yale alumni network" is of lesser significance.

 

 

Caltech is generally ranked higher and I liked how enthusiastic all of the grad students were, but I got the impression during my visit that it could be a bit of a pressure cooker. Yale on the other hand seemed to have more relaxed students, and even though it is ranked a bit lower..

 

BTW, graduate students could be both relaxed and hard working. There is nothing wrong to be under pressure as a graduate student, especially if there is a conference coming up and you want to make the deadline.

 

Another piece of advice - you should probably talk with current graduate students, and see what their daily schedule is like, how they spend their time on weekends and such - these students are going to be your colleagues for the next five years.