Considering a phD application with no research experience...crazy, right?

[myshemblable]

Hi guys,

 

I am a prospective phD student in political science.

 

As an undergrad, I majored in International Relations at a top 5 US university. I was close to a couple of professors, but did very little real research. I even dropped out of my senior thesis to dedicate more time to student groups. I maintained a ~3.8 GPA overall (slightly higher in my IR major). I spent two summers and a quarter working abroad in East Asia and am fluent in an Asian language. 

 

After graduating, I took a job with a top 3 management consulting firm. I have worked there for about 2 years. In a few weeks, I will begin a year-long stint working for an African development agency in-country. I have the option of returning to my firm after that, and they will even sponsor 2 years of graduate work (typically an MBA, but other professional degrees would work, as well), assuming that I come back afterwards.

 

That said, I am generally dissatisfied with my career trajectory and do not think that I will be happy with a life in the private sector. I have done quite a bit of soul-searching and decided that an academic career in political science is what I want. I am open to getting involved in government/policy work, but, first and foremost, I want to be a scholar advancing the field.

 

Let's focus less on whether or not I am making the right decision. Assume that I can do the math and understand that the opportunity cost of switching from my current path is very high, even in the best case outcome.

 

My question for you today is whether or not I am an adequate applicant in my current state, or whether or not I should look into a terminal MA or some other graduate degree to strengthen my application. The economics of a two-year MA program are not great, but I could pay for maybe 1/3 of the total program cost by burning through my post-grad work savings. I would probably need to take on debt for the remaining 2/3 of the cost.

 

A couple of specific questions for you:

 

1) Given my lack of research experience, do I have a shot at any decent program as I stand today? For simplification, let's assume I could pull off solid GRE scores.

 

2) Is it worth the financial and time burden of doing a terminal MA, or some other graduate degree? Again, let's assume that I could use the time effectively and improve my GPA, recs, and get in at least one decent research paper. Would my application be stronger then? Would it be enough to "move up" in terms of the types of programs I could get accepted into?

 

I really appreciate your advice!

Edited April 5, 2013 by myshembable

[ThisGuyRiteHere]

1. Do you have a decent writing sample?

2. Have you done research for MBB or for the African Development firm?

From reading your post, your experience will scream Harvard MPA/ID. To get into a good uni (Top 20+) you will be competing against people who have research experience. I would advise you against doing a MA, PhD's are free (if you can get funding), unless you really feel like you need one. You should ask other people on here who got into top schools, but it is my belief that a UG degree is all you need. To crack top 10, your MA could be a hindrance (a signal that you couldnt do it with a BS alone). One way you could do it is if you got a MA in econ, but I believe you said you were a IR major, so you may not have the math chops. You could do a top MPA, MPP and then do a PhD in Political Science or Public Policy.

[myshemblable]

MarketMan,

 

Thank you for your reply!

 

1) I have a couple of longer undergrad samples that I could pull together with a little cleaning up. I doubt they'd contain earth-shattering revelations, but they'd prove I could write.

 

2) I have done research, but it is proprietary. I'm not sure there is an easy way to share anything. In addition, it would all be in deck format. Not something I'm sure that Adcoms would get.

 

I agree that I am a classic case for the more professionally-oriented policy degrees (MPP/MPA/etc). However, my concern is that these degrees would give me less tangible research experience than an MA that was geared towards people thinking about a phD. Assuming that I wanted to pursue the phD afterwards (rather than return to my firm), I'd still have to pay for the MPA/MPP on my own anyway, putting me in the same spot financially.

 

In your view, are there any unique advantages to a professional grad degree? The only thing I can think of is comparative advantage. Given my background, I will have an easier time getting into a top top professional school (whether it's an MBA, JD, or MPA/MPP) than I would getting into something less "relevant". A professional degree might help move me along towards more policy-oriented things, but how much will it really help me move into the world of academia?

[Mnemonics2]

I'd say forget about thinking of your management consulting job in negative terms. So you haven't done pure political science - big deal. Lots of great candidates don't and go on to do great things. I can think of a number of late blooming political scientists (and you aren't yet even in this category) who have come from random private sector jobs to do great things. And when you make it into academia, the private sector management experience could be an added bonus if it comes to positions where you'd also administer part of a graduate program.

 

This year in Africa could be huge - if your interests are development or ethnic conflict or something, this is the kind of thing it is ok to focus on big time in your SOP. I would have to imagine the the folks at Wisconsin-Madison at least would be only too happy to consider you based on that.

 

I'd say think long and hard about your interests and match yourself to a number of top schools based on that. Match whatever writing sample you are redoing to those interests and the types of analysis that those schools like. Then do a few things. Get in touch with professors well ahead of time. This is a big deal, because if you can do it early enough that you won't be ignored as opportunistic and ask about actual research, they seriously might remember you and flag you. Also, make sure your GRE scores are stellar just to make sure. No clue what your GPA was, but GREs are the obvious thing you've yet to do where you can demonstrate performance. Take them twice if need be.

 

I'd also say, along with Marketman, that the MA/MPA/whatever could just be money you don't have to spend. That being said, it might be the best way to get your feet wet if you are at all unsure about eventual interests. Just saying.

[saudiwin]

Hi myshem --

 

I have a similar background to yours although I also did a professional MA program as well. To be honest, my MA program wasn't all that useful as I hoped for my PhD applications. At least, it didn't help me very much in terms of fitting into the checkboxes of the poli sci discipline. Most professional programs are interdisciplinary and--perhaps unfortunately--aren't respected as such in the "pure" disciplines. Whether that's good or not is a matter of debate, but its an obstacle, nonetheless. Now, you can go to a professional MA and focus on academia--if the school you go to is connected with a substantial research department, you can certainly pull it off. But you will find yourself pushing against the grain of the program, which is to train you to be successful in the job market. PM me if you want to talk more about those kinds of programs.

 

So if you want to prepare for a PhD program, an MA in poli sci is your best bet. But as others have pointed out, MAs in poli sci are kind of a strange beast and if you already know you want a PhD, you're blowing a lot of money when you could just apply directly. Not having "published" papers of course will be a weakness of sorts in your app, but its certainly not the end of the world, either. Just look at the accepted students thread on this forum to see the diverse backgrounds that people brought to the table. Personally, I had only published in the "gray" area (i.e., policy papers, op-eds, etc) and I got into the program I was hoping for. 

 

So I think Mnemonics has it right on to view your time in Africa as a real possibility to prepare yourself for a PhD... you might not be able to publish in peer-reviewed academic journals, but go for something middle-range like op-eds, and refine your research focus. The journalist industry is falling apart and they are always willing to take submissions from people with on-the-ground experience in areas they can no longer afford to send reporters.

 

Talk to grad programs early and let them know who you are and that you're serious about it. Figure out what the departments want, and then pitch it to them. Its just client-facing sales... figure out how your competencies can achieve the client's goals. There's reams of advice on this forum and in various books about structuring your statement of purpose (SOP) and becoming best buddies with your professor of interest (POI). Even the grad school application industry has ABBRs! (Abbreviations).

 

And then... its all unknown at the end of the day. Don't take the advice of people on this forum too seriously, either! The world is a great, mysterious place and the only good path is the one where you work hard and figure out the best road for you. Most of us on this forum have just applied and been accepted, so we think we understand, but we don't, really. If only there was an omniscient dictator of all PhD programs whom we could beseech for aid...

[IRToni]

I just wanted to throw in the possibility of doing an MA in Europe. They're usually cheaper than MA in the US, often quite academically-oriented, and because in Europe you need a MA to get into a PhD program, you're not considered second/worse, and can get lots of good connections. I'm currently doing a MA at the Graduate Institute, Geneva, and found the experience here pretty good so far. Lots of research papers, good (US-educated) professors always willing to help you out, challenging classes. We only have 5000 CHF/year tuition, and a number of students are fully funded!

[ThisGuyRiteHere]

That international experience is going to look really good on your applications, no matter what you decide to do. I agree with looking abroad, you maybe could try and go to the top British schools, etc.

I guess before anyone else can give you more advice, the question is, what are your research interests???

I just wanted to throw in the possibility of doing an MA in Europe. They're usually cheaper than MA in the US, often quite academically-oriented, and because in Europe you need a MA to get into a PhD program, you're not considered second/worse, and can get lots of good connections. I'm currently doing a MA at the Graduate Institute, Geneva, and found the experience here pretty good so far. Lots of research papers, good (US-educated) professors always willing to help you out, challenging classes. We only have 5000 CHF/year tuition, and a number of students are fully funded!

[ThisGuyRiteHere]

http://chrisblattman.com/2008/03/01/which-is-for-you-mpa-mpaid-or-phd/

[cooperstreet]

Why not just take a graduate course or two in PS at the best university in your area? Cheaper than a full MA, your courses will transfer if you get into a PhD program, etc etc. Try for a seminar that will be small and let you connect with a prof and write a research paper. That seems to me a better bet than a full MA.

[myshemblable]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks for the replies. It is encouraging to hear that things are not as hopeless as I initially thought.

 

In terms of my past experience, I agree that my consulting and development experience aren't weaknesses, all else being equal, and could give me very unique and tangible insights in putting together my application. Ideally, I can figure out how to tie all of these experiences into a coherent SOP.

 

As for research interests, I am still working on articulating things clearly. I am not even sure yet that interests qualify more as Political Economy or Comparative Politics. The overarching theme is that I am interested in how economic distribution impacts ground-level political decision-making and participation. Essentially, the impact of economic decision-making (both macro and micro) on constituency-level political decision-making.

 

A couple of key topics come to mind:

• Patronage systems / corruption and development
• Decision-making regarding preferential trade agreements
• Ethnicity, development, and political participation

With all of these topics, I think you could look at a cool cross-section of development types (aid-driven vs. organic growth-driven economies), country types (large vs. small countries, homogeneous vs heterogeneous societies, etc etc).

 

I recognize that I will need to tighten up these interests and get much better at articulating them. That said, I'd appreciate any initial feedback. Do any immediate programs jump out as relevant?

 

Regarding IRToni's comments on European MAs, has anyone tried this option? Do you have thoughts on any good programs that provide real research experience?

[ThisGuyRiteHere]

Ahh now we are speaking my language. This is closely aligned with what I may want to do myself. I was told this, if you want to focus on a region of the world, it will be comparative. If you just want to do it with different areas, it would fall under the IR blanket as IPE. The fact that you have consulting experience will be of some aid understanding all of the economic actors that may influence such activity.

so the next question is, is there a specific region of the world you want to focus on? Then I could advise a few programs, since I investigated the top 100 for PE.

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks for the replies. It is encouraging to hear that things are not as hopeless as I initially thought.

 

In terms of my past experience, I agree that my consulting and development experience aren't weaknesses, all else being equal, and could give me very unique and tangible insights in putting together my application. Ideally, I can figure out how to tie all of these experiences into a coherent SOP.

 

As for research interests, I am still working on articulating things clearly. I am not even sure yet that interests qualify more as Political Economy or Comparative Politics. The overarching theme is that I am interested in how economic distribution impacts ground-level political decision-making and participation. Essentially, the impact of economic decision-making (both macro and micro) on constituency-level political decision-making.

 

A couple of key topics come to mind:

• Patronage systems / corruption and development
• Decision-making regarding preferential trade agreements
• Ethnicity, development, and political participation

With all of these topics, I think you could look at a cool cross-section of development types (aid-driven vs. organic growth-driven economies), country types (large vs. small countries, homogeneous vs heterogeneous societies, etc etc).

 

I recognize that I will need to tighten up these interests and get much better at articulating them. That said, I'd appreciate any initial feedback. Do any immediate programs jump out as relevant?

 

Regarding IRToni's comments on European MAs, has anyone tried this option? Do you have thoughts on any good programs that provide real research experience?

[myshemblable]

Marketman,

 

My natural tendency is to turn to a regional focus. In undergrad, I had a heavy focus on East Asia (China, Taiwan, Singapore, Korea, Vietnam, in particular) and would love to leverage that experience. My development work will be in East Africa, which provides a very different frame of reference. 

 

That said, in the long term, I am looking for what is universal about these topic areas. I want to be a political scientists first and foremost, not a regionalist. I have also found that my regional interests are pretty broad and change frequently (just compare my undergrad and work experiences). For that reason, I feel that a functional focus might do me better in the long run.

 

Thoughts? I'd love to get your insights on programs, as you seem already to done a lot of legwork.

 

 

Ahh now we are speaking my language. This is closely aligned with what I may want to do myself. I was told this, if you want to focus on a region of the world, it will be comparative. If you just want to do it with different areas, it would fall under the IR blanket as IPE. The fact that you have consulting experience will be of some aid understanding all of the economic actors that may influence such activity.

so the next question is, is there a specific region of the world you want to focus on? Then I could advise a few programs, since I investigated the top 100 for PE.

[ThisGuyRiteHere]

Ok so you are definitely going to want IR. CP is for more of a focus. I will be doing my minor in CP so I atleast have the building blocks to analyze different govs, etc.

Since you have a 3.8+, I would recommend Top 50 and up. The ones that jump out immediately are:

CHYMPS, UW-Madison (especially if you want to build on Africa), Duke, Berkeley, Maybe Rochester/NYU.

Basically a good starting point is go through the top 20, look at the profs work and see if you can find 2-3 that do what you want. Remember a PhD is an apprenticeship...you need to find people who can teach you their way of doing research and their expertise

[IRToni]

Except for the PTA stuff, I'd actually say a lot of that would be good in Comparative Political Economy as well (and maybe even better than in IR), since CP has really moved away from a very strong regional focus, IMO. Expecially stuff like Corruption and development would definitely not fall within my idea of International Relations, but the fields have become so overlapping that a meaningful distinction has been lost in many instances, IMO. I could definitely think of CP people doing stuff like that, but also know IR people that are, so I would look into both, OP.

 

The question is also, how you want to go about doing your research. Are you more interested in formal modelling (which would mean Rochester and Michigan might be good choices), small-N case studies, large-N statistical work or a combination? Your initial comment sounded more like large-N, am I reading that right?

 

Otherwise, I think narrowing down your research interests will be key.

 

When applying to MA programs last year, one reason I did not apply to PhD programs was that my research interests were a lot too broad, and I really wanted that additional 1.5/ 2 years to get them together!

[ThisGuyRiteHere]

/what is the difference between IPE and CPe

Except for the PTA stuff, I'd actually say a lot of that would be good in Comparative Political Economy as well (and maybe even better than in IR), since CP has really moved away from a very strong regional focus, IMO. Expecially stuff like Corruption and development would definitely not fall within my idea of International Relations, but the fields have become so overlapping that a meaningful distinction has been lost in many instances, IMO. I could definitely think of CP people doing stuff like that, but also know IR people that are, so I would look into both, OP.

 

The question is also, how you want to go about doing your research. Are you more interested in formal modelling (which would mean Rochester and Michigan might be good choices), small-N case studies, large-N statistical work or a combination? Your initial comment sounded more like large-N, am I reading that right?

 

Otherwise, I think narrowing down your research interests will be key.

 

When applying to MA programs last year, one reason I did not apply to PhD programs was that my research interests were a lot too broad, and I really wanted that additional 1.5/ 2 years to get them together!