Did you go from a BA or MA to PhD? Is an MA becoming a PhD prerequisite?

[LeftInLimbo]

I've read rumors that there is a trend towards PhD programs offering admittance to those who have MAs over those students who have BAs only.  I was also made to be curious when I learned that out of all 5 of the students entering into the PhD program I'll be attending this fall, all 5 of us possessed our Masters.  Not one BA in the bunch!
 
Does this mean that an MA is becoming a PhD prerequisite?  Let us poll the fine folks here and see what the numbers show.  Was the prestige of your undergrad institution enough to get you into a PhD?  Or was the selection committee so awestruck by your stellar writing sample that they rolled out the red carpet leading directly from your BA to their PhD?  Or did you have to prove your mettle with a couple years of graduate drudgery before the gates of opportunity were opened for you?
 
Certainly a more nuanced poll could provide further insight, but I think a very basic one should do for now.

Edited April 16, 2013 by LeftInLimbo

[Caffeine Junkie]

Upon giving the bios on the UC Irvine page a look last fall I noticed that most of the current candidates had M.A.'s, unless they happen to have a B.A. from a T20.

[LeftInLimbo]

Upon giving the bios on the UC Irvine page a look last fall I noticed that most of the current candidates had M.A.'s, unless they happen to have a B.A. from a T20.

 

Yeah, a useful extension of the poll would be to ask, of those BAs, if they came from a T20.

[superhamdi]

This is a great idea! I'm curious too. All the current PhD students I personally know have MAs and all my professors were advocating getting an MA as if it were the logical next step vs. applying for PhD programs. Though that could just be because they had no faith in me

[saul goodman esq]

i would guess that at least 65-70% of students entering leiter top 50 PhD programs overall are coming with a BA only, but that that number is falling.

[LeftInLimbo]

Perhaps if folks want to add further details via comments, it would be helpful.  Including the rank (or reputation outside of rank, esp. for Continental programs) of BA, MA, and PhD.

 

I can say that my BA and my MA were from unranked / unknown programs, and I am entering into a t40 PhD program.  The other folks entering my t40 PhD all have MAs, and from what I could gather via Facebook stalking, they too came from unranked / relatively unknown programs.

[introspectiveopacity]

I'm coming from a BA at a small liberal arts college, and I will be going to a Leiter top 10 PhD program next year. I applied to 11, was (eventually) accepted to 3, waitlisted at 1, and rejected from 7.

[LawrencevonBuskirk]

I'm getting my B.A. from an unknown, small liberal arts college in the midwest. I'll be attending the University of Oregon's Ph.D program in the fall. I'm in to continental philosophy, so Leiter's list wasn't of much use to me.

 

I recently spoke to John Lachs, a professor at Vanderbilt, and he told me that Ph.D programs are becoming more and more likely to accept applicants with an M.A. because this means less funding that the department has to cover.

[philosophia3]

I received my BA from a small, unknown public liberal arts school and got admitted to 2 PhD programs, 1 MA program and removed myself from the waitlist at another MA program. I accepted a fully funded offer for one of the PhD programs. 

[maxhgns]

I have (and had) an MA, but did not vote in the poll because the MA option does not accurately reflect my situation. I'm from (and in) a country that typically requires an MA before the PhD already. It had nothing to do with proving myself! (Although there's no doubt in my mind that the experience was valuable, and that I was a much stronger applicant as a result.)

[MKEPhil]

I have spoken to several adcoms about this.  It seems that an MA is becoming more and more important for PhD study, whereas it was rare in previous decades.  There will always be those who do not need the MA, of course, but that number is shrinking every year and the influx of MA-prepared students is making the standards for incoming classes even higher.

 

Interestingly, however, PhD's would often take double the time in previous decades, so the fact that programs are pushing PhD students out in 4-5 years may contribute to the necessity of an MA program.

Edited April 17, 2013 by MKEPhil

[coffeekid]

I have spoken to several adcoms about this.  It seems that an MA is becoming more and more important for PhD study, whereas it was rare in previous decades.  There will always be those who do not need the MA, of course, but that number is shrinking every year and the influx of MA-prepared students is making the standards for incoming classes even higher.

 

Interestingly, however, PhD's would often take double the time in previous decades, so the fact that programs are pushing PhD students out in 4-5 years may contribute to the necessity of an MA program.

I agree with the first part. But is this second part right? I look at a lot of veteran professors' CVs, who completed their PhD (normally straight from undergrad) in only four years. Even then this was a bit fast, but I've been hearing that the average length for current PhDs is 7.5 years. Are you referring to something in particular when you say this?

[especially]

Ditto to maxhngs' comment. It's pretty standard for students up here to do all 3.

[objectivityofcontradiction]

The general chatter that I have come across over the past couple years of research into Grad programs is that if you received your BA from an ivy or from a top Leiter department, you can most likely get accepted into a PhD. program without the MA. But, I know the MA route is becoming more common. I think admission committees view it more positively than negatively these days. A few factors in this change of perception regarding the MA would be that admission committees feel safer accepting some one with an MA because they can assume that that student got a 'taste' for grad work in the MA and the fact that they are still applying to the PhD. means they have some sense of what they are in for. Another reason, which I think is an overall plus of doing an MA anyways, is simply that you are exposed to more philosophy. Maybe you have time to go back and read the Critique of Pure Reason, or take another course in ancient philosophy. Whatever the case may be, the MA gives you the chance to do more philosophy, and that always looks good on an application (provided you have good letters, of course). That's just my take. Of course, MA route is often unfunded and expensive and thus prone to aversion...

 

and I am not so sure about what LawrenceVonBuskirk said about that reasoning at Vanderbilt... as far as I know, most programs will still expect you to get their MA equivalent in your first couple years into the PhD., and thus i believe they will still be funding you for those early years. It's not as if they just accept the MA and then automatically kick you into 3rd year PhD. work. Sure, you might be able to get credit for a course or two, but I think it's still common practice to expect you to complete their MA. It's also advisable to mention in your SOP that you are 'excited' to continue to take taught courses, even though you may have the MA already, just makes you appear eager for more philosophy: which we all are. 

Edited April 18, 2013 by STM17

[LawrencevonBuskirk]

and I am not so sure about what LawrenceVonBuskirk said about that reasoning at Vanderbilt... as far as I know, most programs will still expect you to get their MA equivalent in your first couple years into the PhD., and thus i believe they will still be funding you for those early years. It's not as if they just accept the MA and then automatically kick you into 3rd year PhD. work. Sure, you might be able to get credit for a course or two, but I think it's still common practice to expect you to complete their MA. It's also advisable to mention in your SOP that you are 'excited' to continue to take taught courses, even though you may have the MA already, just makes you appear eager for more philosophy: which we all are. 

 

Just to clarify, this was only what a professor at Vanderbilt told me. I'm no authority on the matter myself.

[Narziss]

During the prospective visit for the school I accepted, I believe only 3 of 9 prospectives including myself were coming from undergrad; rest had graduate study.