Advice on getting the spouse on board?

[guitargeorge]

Hi All,

 

Starting a PhD program in the fall and looking for some advice on to get my fiance excited about the move.  Some background:

 

We've been together  for 3.5 years and have lived together for the last 1.5.  Got engaged last summer and are getting married right before my program starts.  From day one, she has known about my career goals in academia and has always been supportive and encouraging.  We did pseudo-long distance (2 hrs away) for a year when I did my masters and I moved to the city where she was after I finished.  

 

I applied to many PhD psych programs this past winter and she played an active role in the process - together we made a list of schools/locations that would work for both of us.  We couldn't help but adapt a mindset of moving on and starting a new chapter in a new city and we we're both excited.  About a month ago, my prospects of admission were looking quite grim and we had to accept the fact that we would likely stay here for at least another year.  It was tough, but after a month of "selling" her (and myself) on staying, we finally began to feel comfortable.  Then, seemingly out of nowhere, I was offered admission to a top program on Friday and had to accept on Monday (which I did). 

 

To make a long(er) story short, her reaction to the acceptance has been overwhelmingly supportive, though her personal feelings towards the move fluctuate between excitement and high anxiety.  The fact that the last two months have been such an emotional roller coaster hasn't helped.  I think her main fears center on finding a new job and adapting to life with a grad student husband.  Obviously, this is something in which we have discussed and planned on for a long time, but when reality kicks in - especially when it is so sudden and rapid - it can be a tough adjustment.

 

Anyway, I'm looking for any advice from folks who may have been in a similar situation.  Ways to increase the excitement and/or help with the difficult aspects.  For what it's worth, we're both 28. 

 

Many thanks!

[ak48]

I have absolutely no personal insight/experience to draw upon, but hope it works for you. Congratulations on acceptance.

 

Will you be moving to a big city? I'd expect job prospects to be better in larger places (or at least offer more commutable options)

[guitargeorge]

Thanks.  Yup, a very big Midwestern city so there should be a good amount of opportunities.  I think it's more the initial shock of "wow, this is really happening" that is going to take a while to adjust to.

[ak48]

Thanks.  Yup, a very big Midwestern city so there should be a good amount of opportunities.  I think it's more the initial shock of "wow, this is really happening" that is going to take a while to adjust to.

 

that, and the whole 'living in near poverty' that may confront a lot of graduate students, particularly those who have been working for a while.

 

As a recent college student, this will not be an issue for me  

[TakeruK]

Congrats on your acceptance! Your story sounds very similar!!

 

When I first moved for grad school (MSc), my SO and I had been dating for awhile but she chose to move with me. We got engaged and married during that degree. Last year, when I was applying to PhD programs, we also made a list of schools together: I made a first list of schools that are interesting to me and gave her full veto power over any place she didn't want to move to, then we both updated our lists after visiting programs (she was able to visit some schools with me). It worked out that both our #1 ranked schools matched up and that was that! We felt the same way as you did -- ready to start the next chapter of our lives (and a new adventure, since it's our first time living outside of Canada!). Fortunately for us, we didn't have the 2 month rollercoaster though, so that was an easier adjustment.

 

Many people in academia talk about how hard it is for two academics to live in the same city due to all the moving around that academics do. But when only one person is an academic, it is also really hard on the non-academic spouse since the constant upheaval / changing jobs / building new relationships and friendships is tough! Here are some things that made it easier for us (we're on year 1 of our new adventure):

 

1. We view the PhD as something we are both earning -- it's an investment of time, effort, patience and money from both of us, for something that we think will benefit both of us in the long run. So, we both had equal say in where we were going to move to for the PhD program. We will also continue this mindset for postdocs and beyond!

 

2. The academia career seems to be very demanding. First we are asked to move for grad school. Then, we move again and again (and again) for postdocs. Then the job hunt for a tenured track position is hard and the only way to maximize your chances of getting hired is to be willing to move anywhere. We don't want to end up feeling like "well, we'll delay our life [i.e. starting family, buying a home, settling down, etc] for another couple of years until this PhD/postdoc/adjunct position/whatever is done" because chances are, we will continue feeling this way at all the stages. So we made a couple of promises to ourselves:

 

i) Promise: We're only moving to places we actually like living in from now on. No more cold places, no more small towns! Exceptions are really cool places that we would like to live in! The next move is a long time away but the idea is that if I don't get a postdoc in a place that is both good career-wise and location-wise, then we'll probably enact the promise below immediately:

 

ii) Promise: We're going to settle down in our hometown (where our family is) or another place we end up loving just as much. No job is worth living in a place far from what we value and we want to raise our children near our families. I am confident that a PhD can help me find something good in our hometown. Even if I don't, I would rather work a job I hate and live in a place I love than the other way around. 

 

iii) Promise: We also aren't going to put our lives on hold too much because of the demands of academia. This is why stipend values were an important (but not the most important) part of our grad school choice, and it will continue to be important when we look for post-docs. In grad school, we are already accepting a salary lower than the potential income of a BSc/MSc degree. We're not going to do this at the post-doc level -- if I don't manage to get a position that meets all of our criteria, then we'll also enact promise #2. 

 

Overall, I think "promise #2" represents "a way out" of the difficult journey to an academic career. I think it really helps both of us feel better about making such a big investment of our lives in a PhD program, especially since we know that there will be more investments to make down the road. However, the "way out" promises us something we will be happy about for sure. So the next 8 to 10 years (or less) might be an adventure, but I feel like knowing that no matter what, we will have a happy ending, makes it easier to handle all of the fears!

 

3. I think the hardest part is for my spouse to find work in our new place. Being from Canada, there is a lot of issues we had to sort out before the US would let her work. Fortunately, it seems to have all worked out now, but it took a long time! 

 

4. Take advantage of the benefits of grad school as much as possible (travel opportunities, flexible hours). My spouse joins me on trips when possible (usually she arrives near the end of a conference and we have a mini vacation before flying back home -- this allows us to have cheaper trips since we only have to pay for one ticket). We actually did our honeymoon this way (I went to a conference in France and she flew out and met me in Paris after my conference was over). When my spouse had jobs with odd hours, I changed my work schedule to match hers when possible. So even if she ends up having to work weekends, we can still have a day off together where we do things we would normally do on a weekend day together!

[queenleblanc]

I am moving for a masters program and my hubby had to get on board with it, and the possibility that I want to pursue a PhD afterwards whether at the same place or somewhere else that we have discussed (for when that application also comes in 2014). We are moving, together eventually, but it may be just me at first. He may have to hang back for a few months until he finds a new job. I know what you are going through... At first he was extremely supportive, but now the anxiety has set in re: finding a job in a new city quickly, what we will do if he doesn't find one, cutting our budget back to accommodate our bills but not take too much in loans... Etc. just remember how much of a change this is for the spouse. It is like forced moving, in a way, and while they say they want to, and support you- that concept takes a bit to realize internally. Best of luck to you!

[guitargeorge]

Wow. Incredible advice everyone! 

 

I really like the idea of framing the PhD as something "we" are earning for both of us.  I think the "way out" back up plan is also a very smart move.  We'll definitely have to come up with some promises.

[spacezeppelin]

I'm not married (I do live with my boyfriend though, so theres that), but I am female. I kind of think that her reaction sounds really normal, and really healthy. Obviously I don't know her or you or how shes feeling, but your description sounds like something that anyone would go through when they are facing a big move. I think the fact that she is excited at all means that it will work out once shes there and settled in. I would be worried if there was NO excitement.

 

Its a big change for her too, as you well know. I think that it might be best if you dont try to "sell her" on the move. Time is usually the only thing that really helps me deal with high anxiety. I would just understand how shes feeling, make sure she knows that you are grateful for her support, and let her work through it. Sometimes people focus on "fixing" rather than just understanding. My boyfriend does that a lot. I really appreciate all the effort and thought he puts into my problems. However, sometimes I'd prefer just to be able to talk it out.

 

My boyfriend was having kind of a hard time getting on board with my relocation. I just let him feel how he wanted to about it, and made sure he knew that I cared about his quality of life as well. I made an effort not to be fake, but also really not to dwell too much on the negative on my side. Make sure she knows that your life will INCLUDE grad school, rather than being completely consumed by it (even if thats not true in the beginning).

 

Just my thoughts

[ak48]

iii) Promise: We also aren't going to put our lives on hold too much because of the demands of academia. This is why stipend values were an important (but not the most important) part of our grad school choice, and it will continue to be important when we look for post-docs. In grad school, we are already accepting a salary lower than the potential income of a BSc/MSc degree. We're not going to do this at the post-doc level -- if I don't manage to get a position that meets all of our criteria, then we'll also enact promise #2. 

 

I have heard that postdoc salaries are miserable. I have a hard time believing that you would even be considering a postdoc given those salary constraints. Am i being too pessimistic about postdoc?

[TakeruK]

I have heard that postdoc salaries are miserable. I have a hard time believing that you would even be considering a postdoc given those salary constraints. Am i being too pessimistic about postdoc?

 

That's something I've definitely thought about. You might be too pessimistic, but it might also be that I'm too optimistic. We might also have different ideas on what salary constraints mean! So let's put down some very ballpark sample numbers! Right now, my stipend as a grad student is around $30k/year, which is okay but in Canada, I would estimate that a BSc has the potential to earn probably $40k/year and a MSc has potential to earn probably at least $50k/year (position at a teaching college). There's no guarantee that I'll immediately (if at all) get a nice job like this though, so the whole salary constraint thing will be re-evaluated when the time comes for us to consider post-docs.

 

I've looked around at post-doc postings and I see salaries ranging from $40k/year to over $60k/year (these are fellowships). So, what I mean is that we will probably not be accepting a post-doc that is at the $40k/year range in a place that we don't like and/or a place that won't further a career opportunity. Basically, we won't be taking a post-doc position just to stay in academia -- if we aren't going to have a strong chance at succeeding with a university position in a place we like (e.g. our hometown), we might as well enact the "way out" plan now, instead of waiting a couple more post-docs down the road and realising that we're going to have to leave academia anyways to live where we want.

 

If I had to pick a number right now, I would say around $50k/year is what I'd aim for, keeping in mind that I am very naive about the postdoc process and that I would probably want to revise this a few years down the road! It would also be a balance between actual stipend value and other benefits like insurance, moving expenses, research budget, etc. It's really hard for me to know what would be an "acceptable" salary for us to accept a few years down the road, but in general, the idea of that "promise" is that we would only want to do a post-doc that we felt was in our best interests/worth it, not do a postdoc just to stay in academia. This was our plan for PhD programs too, except salary was less important right now (we don't have children yet) and we picked schools that had what was currently important to us (a place we'd enjoy and good future opportunities). The idea was that if I didn't get into a good program for a PhD, then that would be a good time to leave academia. Maybe the PhD will instead be the end of the road for us, maybe not -- it's a few years away and we'll have to wait and see.

[Elizabeth Reed]

I second spacezeppelin's advice. Most important/best thing you can do, IMO, is validate her feelings and refrain from too much "fixing" (or any, depending on the particulars of the circumstances, e.g., her personality, the dynamics of your relationship, etc.). It's natural to want to problem solve in these kinds of situations. I have that impulse all the time with my SO -- much of the time, though, the most helpful thing for me to do is let her know that I hear what she's expressing and can understand her where she's coming from. Never hurts, of course, to make it clear that you're available for support of whatever kind is wanted/needed, but some things just take time. The trick may be balancing validation with gentle steering in the getting on-board direction. I really like framing the move as an adventure that you're on together/an investment in your shared future. If it's feasible and you haven't already done so, maybe it would help to go to the city where you'll be living and do some exploring together (there's the potential for that to have the opposite effect, but even if it compounds her stress around the move, at least it will give you two a chance to envision life in that city and identify what you can both do to make it a maximally enjoyable place to call home). I again second spacezeppelin's advice with respect to letting her know that you appreciate her support and you recognize that she's making a sacrifice. Somewhat relatedly, you two will hopefully have a long life together and there'll be opportunities down the road for you to reciprocate her willingness to support you now. For this part of the adventure, you need her to go along with something big, and down the road, it'll be the other way around. I guess that's where the promises part comes in - maybe one promise can be that you'll both be flexible and willing to compromise (back and forth!) as the vagaries of life bring you to whatever choice points you'll encounter down the road. Basically, if you think she may have any doubt about this, reassure her you're not going to consign her to a life of being forever the one who has to get on-board. Sorry for the long-windedness, end-of-semester crunch time has me sleep deprived! Most of all, good luck!