Grad School Option for Non Psych Major

[Psyc Floyd]

Hello everyone,

 

I'm hoping to pursue a PhD in psychology, most likely social or clinical. I attended a small liberal arts college in Illinois where I received a BA in business. My cumulative gpa between the aforementioned institution and a junior college is a 3.0. Needless to say I do not have any research experience or any publications. I realize I have a lot working against me, but I'm confident that I can I can strengthen my profile by doing well in prerequisites and on the GRE. My current plan is to take my prerequisites at a local junior college and apply to mostly masters programs. I've noticed some threads on fully funded masters programs, but I'm concerned that this won't be an option for myself due to my low gpa. I was wondering if anyone knew of any masters programs that aren't as difficult to get into that have a good track record of preparing students for doctoral admission. Would I be better off pursuing a second bachelor's degree in psychology, where I would have the opportunity to get some research experience? Or is my original plan to take prerequisites at junior college suffice? Also does anyone know which PhD programs are more likely to forgive a bad undergrad gpa with a good graduate gpa? Basically, what I'm trying to find out: Is there a pathway for acceptance into a PhD program for someone with my credentials. Any other recommendations or ideas on strengthening my application would be greatly appreciated.

[BeingThere]

Well, never say never, but you do have some substantial obstacles.  Most likely you would not be a competitive candidate for a reputable PhD program so your plan to try for a master's program at this time is probably the best route for you.  But here are some things to consider:

 

1) Other than intro courses, I am not sure a junior college will offer the level of coursework that a grad program would be looking for.  Most folks who are applying to master's programs have quite a few upper level psychology courses under their belt.

 

2) You may want to think about why your undergrad GPA was 3.0.  If you struggled in undergrad due to coursework, why do you expect to do well in grad school?

 

3) Why do you want to get a psychology grad degree?  You said you would "most likely" pursue clinical or social.  Those are very different degrees with very different career trajectories.  You may be able to refine your interest in lower-level classes at a junior college, but you may not get an accurate feel for what those fields really are.

 

Just some things to consider.  Not trying to be discouraging; just hoping you will have a realistic plan.

[Psyc Floyd]

Thank you for the feedback, I really appreciate it. I agree that with my credentials it will be difficult to be competitve at any reputable PhD or even master's program for that matter. I'm starting to wonder if my best route would be to take some courses (and potentially gain a second bachelor's degree) from a nearby state school, where costs would still be relatively cheap and I would have the opportunity to gain research experience, work with faculty, and refine my interests. In addition, this route would also allow me to raise my GPA and prove that I can be successful in the field of psychology. As far as my current undergrad GPA, I really had no interest in what I was studying. I can't explain why I majored in business. So I feel the reason for my poor GPA was due to poor effort rather than capability. For instance in my intro to psych course, I excelled, and really enjoyed the reading and writing assignments. Why do I want a psychology grad degree? I guess I really enjoy studying why people do the things they do, and how they interact with one another. I also feel my personal qualities allign well with being a therapist, as I feel I am a very approachable person, and people seem comfortable opening up to me. In addition, I'm very understanding and accepting, and I feel these traits are important to possess for any therapist. I'm concerned my original plan is more of a pipe dream, and that going to a nearby state school may present a more realistic plan, albeit more expensive. Would you agree? Or is my previous lack of success too much to overcome? Thanks agian for the feedback and helping me develop a realistic plan of action.

[Arcadian]

You should be fine. Someone will be willing to give you a chance if you are truly passionate and well-read in your research area of interest. This whole idea that PhD students should already be highly-experienced researchers is quite silly. It creates a catch-22 for latecomers because they need experience to get into the field, but they need to get into the field to get experience. What happened to the days when you could just change your career path on a whim because you had a change of heart? I believe you should be able to do it if you want.

 

It's also silly that grades are emphasized so much in the "screening" process of graduate applications. Many of my professors have said something to the effect of, "The best student is not the best researcher." Getting good grades doesn't reflect the qualities of a good academic. Creativity, critical thinking, and novelty are much more important. A 4.0 GPA doesn't tell you anything about that. Surely, someone will realize this and recognize your qualities if you have them.

 

I guess my practical advice would be to take some classes, attempt to volunteer as an RA, and become very well-read in a research area that interests you.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Arcadian

[Guest |||]

I have seen students from various fields apply and be admitted to psych grad school, including those who held a philosophy, humanities, sociology, political science, and other degrees.

 

I haven't seen business, but I see no reason why in theory you would instantly be excluded.

 

Though schools might request you write the GRE: Psych specific text to better assess you.

[BeingThere]

Your previous lack of success is not an insurmountable obstacle.  But you need to be able to explain your previous decisions (e.g. lack of maturity) and your previous poor grades.  If you can go to a state school, take upper level psych courses, raise your GPA and get research experience, you could conceivably get into a good school.

 

As NicholasCage has said, you don't need a psych undergrad to get into a psych grad program.  But you DO need great grades and a track record of some sort of academic success to get into a good master's program.  And you DO need research experience nowadays to get into a good PhD program.  Funded programs are funded because they are basically hiring you to do work.  So they want to "hire" people who can do the work.

 

I like your revised plan -- go to a state school, get some research experience, find out what exactly you are interested in about psych.  Your statement of interest is too general; everybody is interested in human behavior and many people are compassionate and good listeners.  Those qualities don't distinguish you from a good chunk of the general population.

 

I hope you go for it and pursue this if it's what you want.  If you go enroll at a state school and get some research experience and talk to faculty there you will get further guidance.

 

Best of luck to you!

[lewin]

I don't think the barriers you've described are insurmountable and everybody above has given great advice about what steps to take.

 

 

 

 What happened to the days when you could just change your career path on a whim because you had a change of heart? I believe you should be able to do it if you want.

 

Did those days ever really exist? If I decide that I've read a few books by Brian Greene and Stephen Hawking and now I want to pursue a physics PhD, should they let me in? I admit the learning curve for physics is steeper than the one for psychology, but there's a level of background knowledge and experience that is required to do well in a psychology PhD. It's not entry level, and it's not something that one can just jump into. People should definitely be free to switch career paths but also realize that it's usually not a lateral move. I supervise a bunch of RA's, but that doesn't mean I could switch into mid-level management in some other field without dropping down the ladder a bit.

 

A PhD is a long commitment. If someone switched to psychology on a whim, who's to say they won't have another change of heart in a year or two? If I were a potential advisor, it would be hard to take a chance on somebody like that when I have a line of people who have already demonstrated long-term interest in the field (by doing a degree in psych, by working in a lab). OP, you'll have to demonstrate that you have an approach motivation for psychology, not just avoidance motivation for business.

Edited May 1, 2013 by lewin00

[Arcadian]

Did those days ever really exist?

No. That was a caricature to illustrate a point. However, from what I understand, the expected amount of research experience for new grad students is significantly greater than what it was, say, 20 years ago. And I think that's slightly unfortunate.

I admit the learning curve for physics is steeper than the one for psychology...

I'm not even sure if I agree with that. I wasn't suggesting that psychology is especially good for changing career paths late. I believe it should be possible to switch into any field if you really want to (and have the aptitude for it).

...there's a level of background knowledge and experience that is required to do well in a psychology PhD. It's not entry level, and it's not something that one can just jump into. People should definitely be free to switch career paths but also realize that it's usually not a lateral move. I supervise a bunch of RA's, but that doesn't mean I could switch into mid-level management in some other field without dropping down the ladder a bit.

A PhD is a long commitment. If someone switched to psychology on a whim, who's to say they won't have another change of heart in a year or two? If I were a potential advisor, it would be hard to take a chance on somebody like that when I have a line of people who have already demonstrated long-term interest in the field (by doing a degree in psych, by working in a lab). OP, you'll have to demonstrate that you have an approach motivation for psychology, not just avoidance motivation for business.

Agree with all of that.

I'm defending the type of person who really has the potential to become a great psychologist, but just happened to choose the wrong field early in life. So what if he has no research experience? He's got to start somewhere. And if no one gave him a chance, that would be tragic.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Arcadian

[lewin]

Thanks for the elaboration on your original comment, Arcadian, I think we're in complete agreement.

 

 

 

However, from what I understand, the expected amount of research experience for new grad students is significantly greater than what it was, say, 20 years ago.

 

Oh gosh, not just for grad students. I'm on the job market right now and there's CV creep at every level. People used to get tenure with what it takes to get a job nowadays. And although I have friends who got tenure-track jobs straight from grad school, post docs seem to be the norm now. Recently an early-career professor member told me, "Post docs are still too short. Three years would be the perfect length: One year to get oriented, a second year to be productive, and a third year on the job market." Argh! Personally, I would really love to have a permanent job before I'm 35

[Guest |||]

I think a lot of it comes down to basic understanding of science, i.e. the scientific methods, how experiments are done, and related statistical use

 

then background knowledge of the field, with varying levels of depth depending on where you are headed.

 

Whether or not a business student, law student, or etc knows this info is irrelevant, what is relevant, is whether they know it well enough to change tracks. 

Edited May 2, 2013 by |||